Talks 500-550

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Talk 500.

D.: When all the thoughts are banished and the mind is still or enters into a state of nothingness or emptiness, what is the nature of effort needed on the part of the 'seeker' to have a pratyakshabhava of the 'sought' (e.g., seeing a mango as a mango)?
M.: Who sees nothingness or emptiness? What is pratyaksha? Do you call perception of mango pratyaksha? It involves the play of karma, karta, and karya (action, doer and deed). So it is relative and not absolute.

Because you see a thing now you say there is nothing afterwards (i.e., when you no longer see it). Both are functions of the mind. What lies behind both these assertions is pratyaksha. There is indriya pratyaksha
(directly perceived by senses), manasa pratyaksha (directly perceived by the mind) and sakshat pratyaksha (realised as the very Being). The last alone is true. The others are relative and untrue.

D.: If no effort is needed, can the perpetuated state of emptiness of mind be called the state of realisation?
M.: Effort is needed so long as there is mind. The state of emptiness has been the bone of contention in all philosophies.

D.: Is there anything like pratyakshabhava in the state of realisation or is realisation merely felt or experienced as the very Being or
Sthiti of the soul?
M.: Pratyaksha is very being and it is not feeling, etc.

D.: Until the seeker realizes that he is the sought, the above questions arise for him (the former).

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M.: True. See if you are the seeker. The Self is often mistaken for the knower. Is there not the Self in deep sleep, i.e., nescience? Therefore the Self is beyond knower and knowledge. These doubts are in the realm of mind. To speak from this point of view, the advice is to keep the mind clear, and when rajas and tamas are wiped off, then the satva mind alone exists. So the 'I' vanishes in the satva (oonadhal kan).

Jnana chakshus does not mean that it is an organ of perception like the other sense-organs. Jnanameva chakshuh. Television, etc., are not functions of jnana chakshus. So long as there is a subject and also an object it is only relative knowledge. Jnana lies beyond relative knowledge. It is absolute.

The Self is the source of subject and object. Now ignorance prevailing, the subject is taken to be the source. The subject is the knower and forms one of the triads whose components cannot exist independent of one another. So the subject or the knower cannot be the ultimate Reality. Reality lies beyond subject and object. When realised there will be no room for doubt.

"Bhidyate hridayagranthih chhidyante sarvasamsayah."
The heart knot is snapped; doubts are set at rest. That is called pratyaksha and not what you are thinking of. Avidya nasa is alone
Self-Realisation. Self-Realisation is only owpacharika. SelfRealisation is only a euphemism for elimination of ignorance.

12th July, 1938
Talk 501.

A young Mysorean asked:
D.: How did I get this body?
M.: You speak of 'I' and the 'body'. There is the relationship between the two. You are not therefore the body. The question does not occur to the body because it is inert. There is an occasion when you are not aware of the body - namely, in deep sleep. The question does not arise then. Nevertheless you are there in sleep. To whom does the question arise now?
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D.: The ego.

M.: Yes. The body and the ego rise up together and sink together. There is an occasion when you are not associated with the ego in deep sleep.

Now you are associated with the ego. Of these two states which is your real state? You are present in sleep and the same "You" is present now too. Why should the doubt arise now and not then? You are right in saying that it is for the ego. You are not the ego. The ego is intermediate between the Self and the body. You are the Self. Find out the origin of the ego and see if the doubt persists.

Sri Bhagavan added after a few minutes: The answer, according to sastras, will be that the body is due to karma. The question will be how did karma arise? We must say "from a previous body" and so on without end. The direct method of attack is not to depend on invisible hypotheses but to ask "Whose Karma is it? Or whose body?" Hence
I answered in this manner. This is more purposeful.

14th August, 1938
Talk 502.

Sjt. Rajendra Prasad and Sjt. Jamnalal Bajaj with others are on a visit to Sri Maharshi.

16th August - Sjt. J. B. asked questions:
D.: How is the mind to be steadily kept right?
M.: All living beings are aware of their surroundings and therefore intellect must be surmised in all of them. At the same time, there is a difference between the intellect of man and that of other animals, because man not only sees the world as it is and acts accordingly, but also seeks fulfilment of desires and is not satisfied with the existing state of affairs. In his attempt to fulfil his desires he extends his vision far and wide and yet he turns away dissatisfied. He now begins to think and reason.

The desire for permanency of happiness and of peace bespeaks such permanency in his own nature. Therefore he seeks to find and regain his own nature, i.e., his Self. That found, all is found.

Such inward seeking is the path to be gained by man's intellect. The intellect itself realises after continuous practice that it is enabled by
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So it ceases to function after a certain stage. When it thus ceases to function the Supreme Power is still left there all alone. That is
Realisation; that is the finality; that is the goal.

It is thus plain that the purpose of the intellect is to realise its own dependence upon the Higher Power and its inability to reach the same. So it must annihilate itself before the goal is gained.

D.: A sloka is quoted which means: "I do not desire kingdoms, etc.

Only let me serve Thee for ever and there lies my highest pleasure."
Is that right?
M.: Yes. There is room for kama (desire) so long as there is an object apart from the subject (i.e., duality). There can be no desire if there is no object. The state of no-desire is moksha. There is no duality in sleep and also no desire. Whereas there is duality in the waking state and desire also is there. Because of duality a desire arises for the acquisition of the object. That is the outgoing mind, which is the basis of duality and of desire. If one knows that Bliss is none other than the Self the mind becomes inward turned. If the Self is gained all the desires are fulfilled. That is the apta kamah atma kamah akamascha (fulfilment of desire) of the Brihadaranyaka
Upanishad. That is moksha.

Here J. B. tried to make himself clear by saying that what he meant by sadbuddhi was not the same as buddhi. It means that which holds fast to the good, the right and the chosen path. He wanted to know how such steadfastness could be gained.

M.: What is wanted for gaining the highest goal is loss of individuality.

The intellect is co-extensive with individuality. Loss of individuality can only be after the disappearance of buddhi, good or bad. The question therefore does not arise.

D.: But yet one must know the right thing, choose the right path, practise the right dharma and hold fast to it. Otherwise he is lost.

M.: True strength accrues by keeping in the right direction without swerving from it.

D.: Difficulties are met with. How is one to get the strength necessary to overcome the obstacles which beset one's path?
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M.: By means of devotion and company of the sages.

D.: Loss of individuality was just before mentioned as a prerequisite to moksha. Now devotion and association with the wise are advised as the methods. Is there not individuality implied in them e.g., in
"I am a bhakta", "I am a satsangi"?
M.: The method is pointed out to the seeker. The seeker has certainly not lost his individuality so far. Otherwise the question would not have arisen. The way is shown to effect the loss of individuality of the seeker. It is thus appropriate.

D.: Is the desire for swaraj right?
M.: Such desire no doubt begins with self-interest. Yet practical work for the goal gradually widens the outlook so that the individual becomes merged in the country. Such merging of the individuality is desirable and the related karma is nishkama (unselfish) .

D.: If swaraj is gained after a long struggle and terrible sacrifices, is not the person justified in being pleased with the result and elated by it?
M.: He must have in the course of his work surrendered himself to the
Higher Power whose Might must be kept in mind and never lost sight of. How then can he be elated? He should not even care for the result of his actions. Then alone the karma becomes unselfish.

D.: How can unerring rectitude be ensured for the worker?
M.: If he has surrendered himself to God or to Guru the Power to which he had surrendered will take him on the right course. The worker need no longer concern himself about the rectitude or otherwise of the course. The doubt will arise only if he fails to obey the Master in all details.

D.: Is there not any Power on earth which can bestow Grace on Its devotees so that they may grow strong to work for the country and gain swaraj? (Sri Maharshi remained silent. This, He later said, signified that such was the case).

D.: Is not the tapasya of the ancient mahatmas of the land available for the benefit of its present-day inheritors?
M.: It is, but the fact must not be overlooked that no one can claim to be the sole beneficiary. The benefits are shared by all alike.

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(After a pause) Is it without such saving Grace that the present awakening has come into being? (Here Sri Bhagavan said that before His arrival in Tiruvannamalai in 1896, there was not any clear political thought in India. Only Dadabhai Nauroji had become an M.P.).

After a short pause, J. B. said: Sri Rajendra Prasad is such a noble and selfless worker for the country that he has sacrificed a very lucrative career for this work. The country needs him. And yet he is not in good health, and is always weak and ailing. Why should there be such cruelty to such a noble son of the country?
(Sri Maharshi simply smiled a benign smile).

17th August, 1938
Talk 503.

An American gentleman, Mr. J. M. Lorey, has been staying in the
Asramam for about two months. He asked:
I am leaving tonight. It gives me pain to tear myself away from this place. But I must go to America. I ask for a message from the Master.

The Master understands me even better than I do myself. So I pray for a message to keep me up when I am away from the Master.

M.: The Master is not outside you as you seem to imagine. He is within, is in fact the Self. Recognise this truth. Seek within you and find Him there. Then you will have constant communion with
Him. The message is always there; it is never silent; it can never forsake you: nor can you ever move away from the Master.

Your mind is outgoing. Because of that tendency it sees objects as being outside and the Master among them. But the Truth is different.

The Master is the Self. Turn the mind within and you will find the objects within. You will also realise that it is the Master who is your very Self and there is nothing but Him.

Because you identify yourself with the body you have accepted objects as being outside you. But are you the body? You are not.

You are the Self. There are all the objects and the whole universe.

Nothing can escape the Self. How then can you move away from the Master who is your very Self? Suppose your body moves from
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Mr. Lorey was struck by the answer although he was already familiar with the Master's ways. He was even visibly moved. He prayed that the Grace of the Master might abide with him.

Sri Bhagavan: The Master being the Self. Grace is inseparable from the Self.

Mr. L. Saluted Sri Maharshi with intense fervour, saying: that he might be enabled to realise the Truth.

M.: Is there any moment when you have not realised the Self? Can you ever be apart from the Self? You are always That.

D.: You are the great Master shedding joy and bliss on the world. Your love is indeed unlimited that you choose to abide in the world in human shape! But I wish to know if one should necessarily realise one's Self before being of help to the country and a leader of men.

M.: Realise the Self first and the rest will follow.

D.: America is now the foremost country in industrial matters, mechanical engineering, scientific advance and other worldly affairs. Will she come up to the same level in spiritual life also?
M.: Certainly, she is bound to.

D.: Thank God that it will be so! I am a partner in an Engineering firm. But it is not of vital concern to me. I try to bring spiritual ideals into the work-a-day life of the firm.

M.: That is good. If you surrender yourself to the Higher Power all is well. That Power sees your affairs through. Only so long as you think that you are the worker you are obliged to reap the fruits of your actions. If on the other hand, you surrender yourself and recognise your individual self as only a tool of the Higher Power, that Power will take over your affairs along with the fruits of actions. You are no longer affected by them and the work goes on unhampered. Whether you recognise the Power or not the scheme of things does not alter.

Only there is a change of outlook. Why should you bear your load on the head when you are travelling on a train? It carries you and your load whether the load is on your head or on the floor of the train.

You are not lessening the burden of the train by keeping it on your
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D.: I have been interesting myself in metaphysics for over twenty years. But I have not gained any novel experience as so many others claim to do. I have no powers of clairvoyance, clairaudience, etc. I feel myself locked up in this body and nothing more.

M.: It is right. Reality is only one and that is the self. All the rest are mere Phenomena in it, of it and by it. The seer, the objects and the sight, all are the self only. Can anyone see or hear, leaving the self aside? What difference does it make to see or hear anyone in close proximity or over enormous distance? The organs of sight and hearing are needed in both cases; so also the mind is required. None of them can be dispensed with in either case. There is dependence one way or another. Why then should there be a glamour about clairvoyance or clairaudience?
Moreover, what is acquired will also be lost in due course. They can never be permanent.

The only permanent thing is Reality; and that is the Self. You say "I am", "I am going", "I am speaking", "I am working", etc.

Hyphenate "I am" in all of them. Thus I - AM. That is the abiding and fundamental Reality. This truth was taught by God to Moses:
"I AM that I-AM". "Be still and know that I-AM God." so "I-AM" is God.

You know that you are. You cannot deny your existence at any moment of time. For you must be there in order to deny it. This
(Pure Existence) is understood by stilling your mind. The mind is the outgoing faculty of the individual. If that is turned within, it becomes still in course of time and that "I-AM" alone prevails.

"I-AM" is the whole Truth.

D.: I appreciate the whole answer.

M.: Who is there to appreciate what?
A question about Heart. Sri Bhagavan said: Leave alone the idea of right and left. They pertain to the body. The Heart is the Self.

Realise it and then you will see for yourself. (Mr. Lorey thanked
Sri Bhagavan and saluted him before retiring.)
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18th August, 1938
Talk 504.

A visitor asked Sri Bhagavan about the 'over-mind', and 'super-mind', the 'Psychic', the 'Divine' of Sri Aurobindo's terminology.

M.: Realise the Self or the Divine. All these differences will disappear.

Talk 505.

Babu Rajendra Prasad said: I have come here with Mahatma Gandhiji's permission and I must return to him soon. Can Sri Bhagavan give me any message for him?
M.: Adhyatma sakti is working within him and leading him on. That is enough. What more is necessary?

19th August, 1938
Talk 506.

Explaining the opening stanza of Sad Vidya, Sri Bhagavan said: Sat
(Being) is Chit (Knowledge Absolute); also Chit is Sat; what is, is only one. Otherwise the knowledge of the world and of one's own being will be impossible. It denotes both being and knowledge. However, both of them are one and the same. On the other hand, be it Sat only and not Chit also, such Sat will only be insentient (jada). In order to know it another Chit will be needed; such Chit being other than
Sat cannot be. But it must be. Now taking Chit to be Sat, since Sat is Jada, Chit also becomes jada which is absurd. Again to know it another Chit is required, which is also absurd.

Therefore Sat and Chit are only one and the same.

22nd August, 1938
Talk 507.

An Arya Samajist from Bangalore with a companion visited Sri
Maharshi. He asked: What is the use of yoga-practice? Is it for personal use or universal benefit?
M.: Yoga means union of two entities. What are they? Enquire. Use or benefit is in relation to some centre. What is it? Enquire.

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D.: Should there be distinction of castes?
M.: Who is it that sees such distinction? Find it out.

D.: I find that it is observed in this Asramam. Probably without the approval of Sri Bhagavan others observe it here.

M.: Who are you that speak of others, etc.? Did you notice others, etc., in your sushupti?
D.: I am the individuality here. I may not see others in my sleep but
I see them now.

M.: No doubt you do. But the one who sees now and the one who did not see in sleep are you only - the same individual. Why should you notice differences now and be troubled? Be as you were in sleep.

D.: That cannot be. I see it now whereas I do not see it in my sleep.

That does not alter the existing state of affairs.

M.: Do the objects exist in the absence of the subject?
D.: Their existence is independent of the subject.

M.: Do you say that they exist, or do they come and announce their existence to you?
D.: I know that they exist.

M.: So it is your knowledge of them only. Their existence is not absolute.

D.: Even if I did not know they will continue to exist.

M.: Do you claim their existence in the absence of your knowledge of them? (Laughter).

D.: Brahman is equal to all. There cannot be any distinction there.

Caste-distinction is against the highest principle.

M.: Why do you drag in Brahman? He has no grievances. Let him who has grievances pursue the matter.

D.: You are a Mahatma. You cannot admit castes. But how do the people here enforce such distinctions?
M.: Did I tell you that I am a Jnani or a mahatma? You are saying it yourself. Nor did I make a grievance of this caste affair.

D.: Paramatma is the same in all.

M.: Why do you bring in all these names? They can take care of themselves. They do not require your help.

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D.: Mahatma Gandhi also admits equality...

M.: Gandhi is not here.

D.: Aurobindo does not approve of castes. Do you approve of them?
M.: As for Aurobindo, you ask him. As for my opinion, how does it matter to you? How will it be of use to you? Have you got any opinion on the matter? That alone will affect you, not the opinion of others.

D.: I do not approve of the caste system. Mahatma's opinion is valuable as a guidance. I want your blessings in my attempts.

M.: Mahatma has told you to seek and find your Self. You will not do it but require his blessings.

D.: I am trying to follow the instructions. But caste-distinction is painful. It must go.

M.: To whom does it cause pain?
D.: The members of the society...

M.: It is you who say it. There are countries where there are no such distinctions of caste. Are they free from trouble? There are wars, internecine struggle, etc. Why do you not remedy the evils there?
D.: There are troubles here also.

M.: Differences are always there. There are not only human beings, but also animals, plants, etc. The state of affairs cannot be helped.

D.: We do not mind the animals, etc., at present.

M.: Why not? If they could speak they would claim equality with you and dispute your claims no less vigorously than human beings.

D.: But we cannot help it. It is God's work.

M.: If that is God's work then the other part is your work, is that so?
D.: It is man-made distinction.

M.: You need not notice these distinctions. There is diversity in the world. A unity runs through the diversity. The Self is the same in all. There is no difference in spirit. All the differences are external and superficial. You find out the Unity and be happy.

The pain of diversity is overcome by the joy of the perception of unity. Moreover, a king may disguise himself as a servant. That makes no difference in the person.

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D.: I do not object to differences. But the claims of superiority are wrong.

M.: There are differences in the limbs of one's body. When the hand touches the foot the hand is not defiled. Each limb performs its function. Why do you object to differences?
D.: The people feel the injustice of caste distinction. It must be rooted out.

M.: You can individually arrive at the state where such distinctions are not perceived and be happy. How can you hope to reform the world? Even if you try you cannot succeed. Kavyakantha Ganapati
Sastri offered to initiate Harijans with mantras and make Brahmins of them. But the Harijans did not come forward to accept the offer.

That shows they are themselves afflicted by an inferiority complex.

Remove that complex first before you try to reform others.

Moreover, why do you go to places where such distinctions are observed and cause pain to yourself? Why should you not seek places where they are not observed and be happy there?
Gandhiji also tries to bring about equality. He is also up against the barrier of inferiority complex afflicting the lower orders. He cannot enforce his views on others. He observes non-violence. So matters stand as they are.

D.: We must work to obliterate caste-distinctions.

M.: Then do it. If you have succeeded in the world, then see if the distinctions persist in this place.

D.: This must be the first place where I want to effect the reform.

M.: Why do you exert yourself so much to effect reforms? Go to sleep and see if there are differences. There you obliterate differences without any effort. (Laughter).

24th August, 1938
Talk 508.

An Indian I. C. S. Officer was in the hall for a few hours. He asked: "Can ahimsa put an end to wars in the world?" Sri Bhagavan did not answer and it was time to go out for the evening walk. The next day when someone else repeated the question, Sri Bhagavan said that the question contained its answer. It is patent that in a state of perfect ahimsa there can be no war.

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26th August, 1938
Talk 509.

Mr. Mac Iver had an interview with Sri Bhagavan and spoke about diksha.

Sri Bhagavan asked: What is this diksha?
After a pause, He continued, "Diksha is of various kinds, by word, by sight, by touch and so forth."
D.: Bhagavan's is mowna diksha, is it not?
M.: Yes, this the highest form of diksha.

D.: Is it applicable to the vichara marga only?
M.: All the margas are included in the vichara marga.

D.: Yes, but if one wished to take them separately, it would not be applicable. Would it?
M.: No.

D.: Supposing one feels the need for aids to Realisation these are to be regarded as belonging to accessory margas. Are they not?
M.: Yes.

D.: And for these then other dikshas would be necessary.

M.: Yes.

D.: From this another question arises: So long as I am at Bhagavan's feet, I cannot be regarded as a faithful Christian.

Sri Bhagavan interrupted saying that this was the essence of
Christianity.

D.: Yes, but not in the eyes of the present representatives of the
Church. Accordingly I can no longer look to the side of the Church for aid.

Have I Bhagavan's leave to look elsewhere?
M.: That is left to you.

After a pause Sri Bhagavan spoke to the effect that people who come here are brought by some mysterious Power which will look to their needs. The conversation practically ended with this.

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7th September, 1938
Talk 510.

Mr. T. K. S. Iyer read out a passage from a book which admitted of five different divisions of antahkaranas as follows: (1) Ullam, (2) mind, (3) intellect, (4) chittam, (5) ego.

Sri Bhagavan said: Four divisions are usual. The fifth item ullam has been brought in to correspond to five tattvas thus:
(1) Ullam (consciousness) is akasa (ether) tattva from the cranium to the brows.

(2) Manas (thinking faculty) is vayu (air) tattva from the brows to the throat.

(3) Buddhi (intellect) is agni (light) tattva from the throat to the heart.

(4) Chitta (memory) is jala (water) tattva from the heart to the navel, and,
(5) Ahankar (ego) is prithvi (earth) tattva from the navel to the coccyx.

Ullam is thus the pure mind or the mind in its pure being, i.e., mind divested of all thoughts. It is the ether of mind corresponding to the expanse of mind without being crowded by thoughts.

When a person wakes up from sleep the head is raised and there is the light of awareness. This light was already there in the heart which is later reflected on the brain and appears as consciousness. But this is not particularised until ahankar steps in. In the undifferentiated state it is cosmic (cosmic mind or cosmic consciousness). This state lasts usually for a minute interval and passes off unnoticed. It becomes particularised or differentiated by the intrusion of the ego and the person says 'I'. This is always associated with an entity (here, the body). So the body is identified as 'I' and all else follows.

Because ullam is only the reflected light, it is said to be the moon.

The original light is in the heart which is said to be the sun.

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9th September, 1938
Talk 511.

Major Chadwick had translated Na karmana na prajaya ... into
English. Sri Bhagavan was explaining its meaning. Brahmaloka may be interpreted subjectively or objectively. The latter meaning requires faith in the sastras which speak of such lokas, whereas the former meaning is purely of experience and requires no external authority. Brahmaloka would mean Brahma jnana (Knowledge of
Brahman) or Self-Realisation (Atma-Sakshatkara). Parantakala as opposed to aparantakala. In the latter the jivas pass into oblivion to take other births. Their oblivion is enveloped in ignorance (avidya).

Para is beyond the body. Parantakala is transcendence over the body, etc., i.e., jnana (knowledge). Paramritat prakriteh = beyond prakriti. Sarve implies that all are qualified for knowledge and liberation (moksha). yatayah = yama niyama sametah sat purushah
= good men well disciplined. The whole passage implies passing into the real beyond the unreal. na karmana na prajaya dhanena tyagenaike amritatvamanasuh parena nakam nihitam guhayam, vibhrajate yadyatayo visanti vedanta vijnana sunishchitarthah sanyasayogadyatayah shuddha satvah te brahmaloke tu parantakale paramritat parimuchyanti sarve dahram vipapam paravesmabhutum yat pundarikam puramadhya samstham tatrapi dahram gaganam visokastasmin yadantastadupasitavyam yo vedadau svarah prokto vedante cha pratishtitah tasya prakritilinasya yah parah sa Mahesvarah
[Deathlessness is not obtained through action or begetting offspring or wealth. Some attain that state through renunciation.

The Sages (that have conquered the senses) attain that Sat which is more supreme than Heaven and shining all alone in the Heart.

The adepts who by renunciation and one-pointedness are pure in heart and have known the certainty of Truth by the special knowledge
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That alone which shines as the tiny Akasa void of sorrow, in the lotus heart, the tiny seat of the spotless Supreme in the (inner) core of the body is worthy of worship.

He alone is the Supreme Lord, who is beyond the Primal Word which is the beginning and end of the Veda and in which merges the creative Cause].

Mr. T. K. S. Iyer later asked something about muktaloka (region of liberated souls). Sri Bhagavan said that it meant the same as Brahmaloka.

D.: Asked if some sukshma tanu (subtle body) such as pranava tanu or suddha tanu (tanu = body; suddha = pure) was required to gain such loka.

M.: Pranava means real japa. It is however interpreted to be A, U, M,
Nada and Bindu. Of these, the first three are interpreted as Visva,
Taijasa, Prajna and Virat, Hiranyagarbha, Isvara, Nada and Bindu correspond to prana and manas (mind).

The Mandukya Upanishad speaks of the three matras and turiya matra. The final meaning is that it represents the real state.

To a further question, Bhagavan answered: There are said to be Panchapada Mahavakyani (mahavakyas with five words) e.g.,
Tattvamasi atinijam ('you are that' is the great truth). The first three words have their lakshya artha (significance) all of which signify only the one Truth. So many efforts and so much discipline are said to be necessary for eradicating the non-existing avidya!

11th September, 1938
Talk 512.

Sri Bhagavan said: All mistake the mind-consciousness for SelfConsciousness. There is no mind in deep sleep; but no one denies his being in sleep. Even a child says on waking, "I slept well," and does not deny its existence. The 'I' rises up, the mind turns outward through the five senses and perceives objects, this they call direct perception. Asked if 'I' is not directly perceived, they get confused, because 'I' does not announce itself as an object in front and only the perception with the
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This is direct perception. Will the common people admit it? They want
God to appear in front of them as a bright Being mounted on a bull.

Such a vision once originated must also end. It is therefore transient.

Thevaram speaks of the Eternal and Ever-experienced Being. This
Thevaram takes one directly to the Reality.

16th September, 1938
Talk 513.

Major Chadwick again gave his versified translation of the mantra for Sri
Bhagavan to read. Sri Bhagavan softly spoke of the interpretation of the
Bhashyakara and further explained the same. To consider the Brahmaloka as a region is also admissible. That is what the pouraniks say and many other schools also imply it by expounding kramamukti (liberation by degrees). But the Upanishads speak of sadyomukti (immediate liberation) as in Na tasya prana utkramanti; ihaiva praleeyante - the pranas do not rise up; they lose themselves here. So Brahmaloka will be Realisation of
Brahman (Brahmasakshatkara). It is a state and not a region. In the latter case, paramritat must be properly understood. It is para inasmuch as avyakrita is the causal Energy transcending the universe, amrita because it persists until the Self is realised. So that paramritat will mean avyakrita.

The kramamukti (liberation by degrees) school say that the upasaka goes to the region of his Ishta Devata which is Brahmaloka to him. The souls passing to all other lokas return to be reborn. But those who have gained the Brahmaloka do not. Moreover those desirous of a particular loka can by proper methods gain the same. Whereas Brahmaloka cannot be gained so long as there is any desire left in the person. Desirelessness alone will confer the loka on him. His desirelessness signifies the absence of the incentive for rebirth.

The age of Brahma is practically immeasurable. The presiding deity of the loka is said to have a definite period of life. When he passes away his loka also is dissolved. The inmates are emancipated at the same
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The kramamukti school objects to the idea of sadyomukti (immediate liberation) because the Jnani is supposed to lose body-consciousness at the same time that ignorance is dispelled but he continues to live in the body. They ask, "How does the body function without the mind?"
The answer is somewhat elaborate:
Knowledge (jnana) is not incompatible with ignorance (ajnana) because the
Self in purity is found to remain along with ignorance-seed (ajnana beeja) in sleep. But the incompatibility arises only in the waking and dream states.

Ajnana has two aspects: avarana (veiling) and vikshepa (multiplicity). Of these, avarana (veiling) denotes the veil hiding the Truth. That prevails in sleep. Multiplicity (vikshepa) is activity in different times. This gives rise to diversity and prevails in waking and dream states (jagrat and svapna).

If the veil, i.e., avarana is lifted, the Truth is perceived. It is lifted for a
Jnani and so his karana sarira (causal body) ceases to exist. Vikshepa alone continues for him. Even so, it is not the same for a Jnani as it is for an ajnani.

The ajnani has all kinds of vasanas, i.e., kartrtva (doership) and bhoktrtva
(enjoyership), whereas the Jnani has ceased to be doer (karta). Thus only one kind of vasana obtains for him. That too is very weak and does not overpower him, because he is always aware of the Sat-Chit-Ananda nature of the Self. The tenuous bhoktrtva vasana is the only remnant of the mind left in the Jnani and he therefore appears to be living in the body.

This explanation when applied to the mantra amounts to this: A Jnani has his karana sarira destroyed; the sthula sarira (gross body) has no effect on him and is for all practical purposes destroyed too. The sukshma sarira (subtle body) alone remains. It is otherwise called ativahika sarira. It is this which is held by all persons after the physical body is given up. And with this they traverse to other lokas until another suitable physical body is taken. The Jnani is supposed to move in Brahmaloka with this sukshma sarira. Then that is also dissolved and he passes to final Liberation.

The whole explanation is meant only for the onlooker. The Jnani himself will never raise such questions. He knows by his experience that he is not bound by any kind of limitations.

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D.: What is the 'final emancipation' according to the foregoing explanation?
M.: The ativahika or the sukshma sarira corresponds to the pure light which one experiences just after sleep and before the rise of the ego.

It is Cosmic Consciousness. That is only the Light reflected from the Heart. When the reflection ceases and abides as the Original
Light in the Heart it is final emancipation.

D.: But Yoga Vasishtha says that the chitta (mind) of a jivanmukta is achala (unchanging).

M.: So it is. Achala chitta (unchanging mind) is the same as suddha manas (pure mind). The jnani's manas is said to be suddha manas.

The Yoga Vasishtha also says that Brahman is no other than the jnani's mind. So Brahman is suddha manas only.

D.: Will the description of Brahman as Sat-Chit-Ananda suit this suddha manas? For this too will be destroyed in the final emancipation.

M.: If suddha manas is admitted, the Bliss (Ananda) experienced by the Jnani must also be admitted to be reflected. This reflection must finally merge into the Original. Therefore the jivanmukti state is compared to the reflection of a spotless mirror in another similar mirror. What will be found in such a reflection? Pure Akasa
(Ether). Similarly, the jnani's reflected Bliss (Ananda) represents only the true Bliss.

These are all only words. It is enough that a person becomes antarmukhi (inward-bent). The sastras are not needed for an inward turned mind. They are meant for the rest.

Talk 514.

Mr. Mac Iver, a resident devotee, asked Sri Bhagavan if he might go to Switzerl and where a Guru was inviting him. Sri Bhagavan said:
Some Force brought him here and the same is taking him to Europe.

Let him always remember that the world is only a projection of the mind, and the mind is in the Self. Wherever the body may move the mind must be kept under control. The body moves, but not the Self.

The world is within the Self, that is all.

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17th September, 1938
Talk 515.

D.: In the explanation given yesterday, it is said that the removal of avarana results in the annihilation of the karana sarira. That is clear. But how is the gross body considered to fall off too?
M.: The vasanas are of two kinds: bandha hetu (causing bondage) and bhoga hetu (only giving enjoyment). The Jnani has transcended the ego and therefore all the causes of bondage are inoperative. Bandha hetu is thus at an end and prarabdha (past karma) remains as bhoga vasana (to give enjoyment) only. Therefore it was said that the sukshma sarira alone survives jnana. Kaivalya says that sanchita Karma (stored
Karma) is at an end simultaneously with the rise of jnana; that agami
(Karma now collecting) is no longer operative owing to the absence of the sense of bondage, and that prarabdha will be exhausted by enjoyment (bhoga) only. Thus the last one will end in course of time and then the gross body also falls away with it.

Sarira traya (the three bodies) and Karma traya (the three Karmas) are mere phrases meant for the delectation of debaters. A Jnani is not affected by any of them.

An aspirant is instructed to find who he is. If he does so, he will take no interest in discussing such matters as the above. Find the
Self and rest in Peace.

22nd September, 1938
Talk 516.

A question arose if the world is real or unreal, since it is claimed to be both by the advaitins themselves. Sri Bhagavan said that it is unreal if viewed as apart from the Self and real if viewed as the Self.

25th September, 1938
Talk 517.

There was some reference of two slokas in Yoga Vasishtha where spiritism in mlechcha desa is mentioned. Mr. Mac Iver said that black magic is more prevalent in the West than is ordinarily known to the observer. The writer then remembered how Mr. Paul Brunton had once said that he actually feared a woman for her association with black magic.

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Sri Bhagavan asked if the gentleman had read Devikalottaram. He then said that abhichara prayoga (black magic) is condemned there.

He also added that by such practices one compasses one's own ruin.

Avidya (ignorance) is itself bad and makes one commit suicide. Why should black magic be also added to it?
D.: What is the pratikriya (remedy) open to the victim of black magic?
M.: Bhakti (devotion to God).

D.: Non-resistance seems to be the only remedy for all kinds of evil such as slander.

M.: Quite so. If one abuses another or injures him the remedy does not lie in retort or resistance. Simply keep quiet. This quiet will bring peace to the injured but make the offender restless until he is driven to admit his error to the injured party.

This black magic is said to have been used even against the greatest saints in India since time immemorial. The tapasvis of Daruka forest used it against Siva Himself.

Then the conversation turned on Brahmaloka.

Sri Bhagavan said Brahmaloka is the same as Atmaloka. Again
Brahmaiva lokah = Brahmalokah (Brahma is Himself the region) and Brahma is Atma. So Brahmaloka is only the Self.

Loka, aloka are both synonymous. It is the same as andamillakkan in
Ulladu Narpadu. Lokyate iti lokah (That which is seen is loka).

27th September, 1938
Talk 518.

Mr. V. Gupta, a Telugu Pandit, is on a visit here. Sri Bhagavan said in the course of conversation: Ahamkriti (the ego) is not the same as aham.

The latter is the Supreme Reality whereas the former is the ego. It is to be overcome before the Truth is realised. The Supreme Being is unmanifest and the first sign of manifestation is Aham Sphurana (light of 'I'). The Brihadaranyaka Upanishad says Aham nama abhavat (He became 'I' named). That is the original name of the Reality.

The Pandit asked about the operation of Grace. Is it the mind of the
Guru acting on the mind of the disciple or anything different?
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M.: The Highest Form of Grace is Silence (mowna). It is also the highest upadesa.

D.: Vivekananda has also said that silence is the loudest form of prayer.

M.: It is so, for the seeker's silence Guru's silence is the loudest upadesa. It is also Grace in its highest form. All other dikshas
(initiations), e.g., sparsa, chakshus are derived from mowna
(silence). They are therefore secondary. Mowna is the primary form.

If the Guru is silent the seeker's mind gets purified by itself.

D.: Is it proper that one prays to God or Guru when one is afflicted by worldly ills?
M.: Undoubtedly.

Talk 519.

M.: The mahavakyas and their interpretation lead to interminable discussions and keep the minds of the seekers engaged externally. To turn the mind inward the man must directly settle down in the 'I'. Then there is an end of external activities and perfect Peace prevails.

Later, a passage from the Yoga Vasishtha was read out before Sri
Bhagavan, indicating initiation by look and initiation by touch.

Sri Bhagavan observed: Dakshinamurti observed silence when the disciples approached Him. That is the highest form of initiation. It includes the other forms. There must be subject-object relationship established in the other dikshas. First the subject must emanate and then the object. Unless these two are there how is the one to look at the other or touch him? Mowna diksha is the most perfect; it comprises looking, touching and teaching. It will purify the individual in every way and establish him in the Reality.

Talk 520.

An Australian gentleman (Mr. Lowman) is on a visit here. He seems to be studying the Hindu system of Philosophy. He started saying that he believed in unity, the jiva is yet in illusion and so on.

M.: What is the unity you believe in? How can the jiva find a place in it?
D.: The Unity is the Absolute.

M.: The jiva cannot find a place in Unity.

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D.: But the jiva has not realised the Absolute and imagines itself separate.

M.: Jiva is separate because it must exist in order to imagine something.

D.: But it is unreal.

M.: Any unreal thing cannot produce effects. It is like saying that you killed some animal with the horn of a hare. A hare does not grow horns.

D.: I see the absurdity. But I speak from the physical plane.

M.: You say, 'I'. Who is that 'I'? If that is found you can later say whose is the illusion.

A little later Sri Bhagavan asked:
You say you are in the physical plane now. In which plane are you in dreamless sleep?
D.: I think in the physical plane again.

M.: You say, "I think". That means that you are saying it now when you are awake. Anyway you admit that you exist in deep sleep. Don't you?
D.: Yes, but I did not function then.

M.: So then, you existed in deep sleep. You are the same one who continues to exist? Are you not?
D.: Yes.

M.: With this difference - that you did not function in your sleep.

Rather you are associated with the thinking faculty in your waking state and you are dissociated from it in sleep. Is it not so?
D.: Yes.

M.: Which is then your real nature? Is it to be associated with thinking or to be dissociated?
D.: I see it now. But I was not aware of my being in sleep.

M.: You say so now. You do not say so in your sleep. Or do you deny your being (very existence in sleep)?
D.: No.

M.: It amounts to this that you exist in both states. The Absolute Existence is the Self. You are also conscious of the Existence. That Existence is also consciousness (Sat and Chit). That is your real nature.

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D.: But thinking is necessary even for realisation.

M.: That thinking is aimed at the elimination of all thinking.

D.: Owing to my ignorance, I do not realise the Absolute ExistenceConsciousness.

M.: Who is the 'I'? Whose is the ignorance! Answers to these questions will alone suffice to prove that you are already realised. Is there anyone who denies his own existence? Or can anyone say that he did not exist in his sleep? Pure Existence is thus admitted. The admission also implies consciousness. Thus all men are realised.

There is no ignorant man at all.

D.: Yes, I understand. But I have a small question to ask. The state of
Realisation is one of desirelessness. If a human being is desireless he ceases to be human.

M.: You admit your existence in sleep. You did not function then. You were not aware of any gross body. You did not limit yourself to this body. So you could not find anything separate from your Self.

Now in your waking state you continue to be the same Existence with the limitations of the body added. These limitations make you see other objects. Hence arises desire. But the state of desirelessness in sleep made you no less happy than now. You did not feel any want. You did not make yourself miserable by not entertaining desires. But now you entertain desires because you are limited to this human frame. Why do you wish to retain these limitations and continue to entertain desires?
Sri Bhagavan continued:
Does the body tell you that it is there? It is certainly something apart from the body that remains aware. What is it?
Do you say that it is the 'I', meaning the ego which arises simultaneously with the waking of the individual from sleep? Be it so. The body is not sentient. The Absolute does not speak. The ego does. One does not aspire for liberation in sleep. The aspiration arises only in the waking state. The functions of the waking state are those of the ego which is synonymous with the 'I'. Find out who this 'I' is. On doing so and abiding as 'I', all these doubts will be cleared up.

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28th September, 1938
Talk 521.

Some Congressmen handed over the following questions to Maharshi:
1. How long is India destined to suffer bondage?
2. Have not the sons of India made enough sacrifice for her liberation?
3. Will India get freedom during Mahatma Gandhi's lifetime?
The above questions were not answered categorically. Sri Bhagavan simply remarked:
Gandhiji has surrendered himself to the Divine and works accordingly with no self-interest. He does not concern himself with the results but accepts them as they turn up. That must be the attitude of national workers.

Q.: Will the work be crowned with success?
M.: This question arises because the questioner has not surrendered himself.

Q.: Should we not then think of and work for the welfare of the country?
M.: First take care of yourself and the rest will naturally follow.

Q.: I am not speaking individually but for the country.

M.: First surrender and see. The doubts arise because of the absence of surrender. Acquire strength by surrender and then your surroundings will be found to have improved to the degree of strength acquired by you.

Q.: Should we not know if our actions will be worthwhile?
M.: Follow the example of Gandhiji in the work for the national cause.

'Surrender' is the word.

The following slip was also handed over to Sri Bhagavan:
"Four of us have come from Coorg and we had gone to Delhi to wait as a deputation on the Working Committee of the Indian National Congress and we are now going back. We are sent from the Coorg Congress
Committee and so kindly give us some message to the Coorg District
Congress Committee and the people of Coorg in general."
When this slip was handed over, Sri Bhagavan said that the same answer holds good here too. The message is contained in the word 'Surrender'.

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29th September, 1938
Talk 522.

A visitor asked Sri Bhagavan: I want knowledge.

M.: Who wants knowledge?
D.: I want it.

M.: Who is that 'I'? Find the 'I' and see later what further knowledge is required.

2nd October, 1938
Talk 523.

A Pilgrims' special train brought several visitors from Bengal. One of them said that he had read Mr. Paul Brunton's book and since then he was anxious to see Sri Bhagavan. He also asked: How shall
I overcome my passions?
M.: Find their root and then it will be easy. (Later) What are the passions? Kama (lust), krodha (anger), etc. Why do they arise?
Because of likes and dislikes towards the objects seen. How do the objects project themselves in your view? Because of your avidya, i.e., ignorance. Ignorance of what? Of the Self. Thus, if you find the Self and abide therein there will be no trouble owing to the passions.

(Later) Again, what is the cause of the passions? Desire to be happy or enjoy pleasure. Why does the desire for happiness arise? Because your nature is happiness itself and it is natural that you come into your own. This happiness is not found anywhere besides the Self.

Do not look for it elsewhere. But seek the Self and abide therein.

Still again, that happiness which is natural is simply re-discovered, so it cannot be lost. Whereas the happiness arising from other objects are external and thus liable to be lost. Therefore it cannot be permanent and so it is not worth seeking.

Moreover craving for pleasures should not be encouraged. One cannot put out burning fire by pouring petrol over it. An attempt to satisfy your craving for the time being, so that the passion may later be suppressed, is simply foolish.

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There are, no doubt, other methods for the suppression of passion.

They are (1) regulated food, (2) fasting, (3) yoga practice, (4) medicines. But their effects are transitory. The passions reappear with greater force as soon as the check is removed. The only way to overcome them is to eradicate them. That is done by finding their source as stated above.

Talk 524.

Another pilgrim asked: I am a man with a family. Is it possible for those in a family to get release, and if so how?
M.: Now what is family? Whose family is it? If the answers to these questions are found the other questions solve themselves.

Tell me: Are you in the family, or is the family in you?
The visitor did not answer. Then Sri Bhagavan's answer was continued: Who are you? You include three aspects of life, namely, the waking, the dream and the sleep states. You were not aware of the family and their ties in your sleep and so these questions did not arise then. But now you are aware of the family and their ties and therefore you seek release. But you are the same person throughout.

D.: Because I now feel that I am in the family it is right that I should seek release.

M.: You are right. But consider and say: Are you in the family or is the family in you?
Another visitor interposed: What is family?
M.: That's it. It must be known.

D.: There is my wife and there are also my children. They are dependent on me. That is the family.

M.: Do the members of the family bind your mind? Or do you bind yourself to them? Do they come and say to you "We form your family. Be with us"? Or do you consider them as your family and that you are bound to them?
D.: I consider them as my family and feel bound to them.

M.: Quite so. Because you think that so-and-so is your wife and so-and-so are your children you also think that you are bound to them.

These thoughts are yours. They owe their very existence to you.

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You can entertain these thoughts or relinquish them. The former is bondage and the latter is release.

D.: It is not quite clear to me.

M.: You must exist in order that you may think. You may think these thoughts or other thoughts. The thoughts change but not you. Let go the passing thoughts and hold on to the unchanging Self. The thoughts form your bondage. If they are given up, there is release.

The bondage is not external. So no external remedy need be sought for release. It is within your competence to think and thus to get bound or to cease thinking and thus be free.

D.: But it is not easy to remain without thinking.

M.: You need not cease thinking. Only think of the root of the thoughts; seek it and find it. The Self shines by itself. When that is found the thoughts cease of their own accord. That is freedom from bondage.

D.: Yes. I understand it now. I have learnt it now. Is a Guru necessary?
M.: So long as you consider yourself as an individual, a Guru is necessary to show to you that you are not bound by limitations and that your nature is to be free from limitations.

Talk 525.

Another visitor asked: Actions are bondage. One cannot remain without some kind of activity. So bondage goes on increasing.

What is one to do under the circumstances?
M.: One should act in such a manner that the bondage is not streng thened but gets weakened. That is selfless action.

3rd October, 1938
Talk 526.

A visitor asked Sri Bhagavan: People give some names to God and say that the name is sacred and repetitions of the name bestow merit on the individual. Can it be true?
M.: Why not? You bear a name to which you answer. But your body was not born with that name written on it, nor did it say to anyone that it bore such and such a name. And yet a name is given to you and you answer to that name, because you have identified yourself
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But the man did not look satisfied. Finally he wanted to retire and prayed for Sri Bhagavan's Grace.

Sri Bhagavan now asked how mere sounds assuring him of Grace would satisfy him unless he had faith.

Both laughed and the visitor retired.

4th October, 1938
Talk 527.

A group of respectable Coorg ladies was in the hall.

One of them asked: I have received a mantra. People frighten me saying that it may have unforeseen results if repeated. It is only Pranava.

So I seek advice. May I repeat it? I have considerable faith in it.

M.: Certainly, it should be repeated with faith.

D.: Will it do by itself? Or can you kindly give me any further instructions?
M.: The object of mantra japa is to realise that the same japa is already going on in oneself even without effort. The oral japa becomes mental and the mental japa finally reveals itself as being eternal. That mantra is the person's real nature. That is also the state of realisation.

D.: Can the bliss of samadhi be gained thus?
M.: The japa becomes mental and finally reveals itself as the Self.

That is samadhi.

D.: Please show Grace to me and streng then me in my efforts!

13th October, 1938
Talk 528.

A middle-aged Andhra man asked: "Is thought of God necessary for fixing one's sight (or making the mind one-pointed)?"
M.: What is the practice?
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D.: To fix the look.

M.: What for?
D.: To gain concentration.

M.: The practice gives work for the eye right enough; but where is the work for the mind in the process?
D.: What should I do for it?
M.: Thought of God, certainly.

D.: Does the practice make one ill?
M.: Maybe. But all will be rightly adjusted of its own accord.

D.: I practised dhyana for four hours a day and fixation of sight for two hours. I became ill. Then others said that it was owing to my practice. So I gave up dhyana.

M.: Matters will adjust themselves.

D.: Is it not better that the gaze of the eye becomes fixed naturally?
M.: What do you mean?
D.: Is practice necessary to fix the gaze or is it better to leave it to happen of its own accord?
M.: What is practice if it is not an attempt to make something natural?
It will become natural after long practice.

D.: Is pranayama necessary?
M.: Yes. It is useful.

D.: I did not practise it. But should I undertake it?
M.: Everything will be all right with sufficient strength of mind.

D.: How shall I get the strength of mind?
M.: By pranayama.

D.: Is food-regulation also necessary?
M.: It is certainly useful.

D.: Should my contemplation be on the Infinite or the limited being?
M.: What do you mean?
D.: May I contemplate on Sri Krishna or Sri Rama alternately?
M.: Bhavana implies khanda i.e., division.

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15th October, 1938
Talk 529.

In the course of conversation Sri Bhagavan said that Thirujnanasambandar had sung in praise of Sri Arunachala. He also mentioned the story briefly as follows:
Jnanasambandar was born in an orthodox family about 1,500 years ago. When he was three years old his father took him to the temple in
Shiyali. He left the boy on the bank of the sacred tank and went in to bathe. As he dipped in the water the boy, not finding his father, began to cry out. Immediately Siva and Parvati appeared in a vimana. Siva told Parvati to feed the boy with her milk. So she drew out milk in a cup and handed it to the boy. He drank it and was happy.

The father as he came out of the water saw the boy smiling and with streaks of milk round his lips. So he asked the boy what happened to him. The boy did not answer. He was threatened and the boy sang songs. They were hymns in praise of Siva who appeared before him.

He sang, "The One with ear-rings... the Robber, who robbed me of my mind...."
He thus became one of the most famous bhaktas and was much sought after. He led a vigorous and active life; went on pilgrimage to several places in South India. He got married in his sixteenth year. The bride and the bridegroom went to have darsan of God in the local temple soon after the marriage ceremonies were over. A large party went with them. When they reached the temple the place was a blaze of light and the temple was not visible. There was however a passage visible in the blaze of light. Jnanasambandar told the people to enter the passage. They did so. He himself went round the light with his young wife, came to the passage and entered it as the others had done earlier. The Light vanished leaving no trace of those who entered it.

The temple again came into view as usual. Such was the brief but very eventful life of the sage.

In one of his tours he had come to Ariyanainallur or Tirukkoilur, eighteen miles from Tiruvannamalai. The place is famous for its Siva temple.

(It was here that Sri Bhagavan had that vision of Light on his way to
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Tiruvannamalai in his seventeenth year. Sri Bhagavan did not then know that the place was sanctified by the feet of Tirujnanasambandar some fifteen centuries ago.)
When the ancient sage was staying in Ariyanainallur an old man who carried a flower-basket came to him. The young sage asked the old man who he was. The latter replied that he was a servitor of Sri
Arunachala the God residing as the Hill here.

Sage: How far is it from here?
The old man: I walk every day from there to here collecting flowers for daily worship. So it is only near.

Sage: Then I shall go with you to that place.

The old man: A rare pleasure, indeed, for me!
They went together, with a large crowd following the Sage. After walking some distance the Sage wanted to ask how much further the place was.

But the old man had disappeared in the meantime. Soon after, a gang of dacoits waylaid the pilgrims who surrendered all that they had with them.

They plodded their way and reached their destination. The young Sage fell into contemplation. God appeared and said that the dacoits were only
His followers and that his needs would be met. Accordingly, the group of pilgrims found all their wants. The Sage had sung hymns in praise of
Sri Arunachala. In one of the stanzas, he says:
"You are a dense mass of jnana, capable of removing the 'I-am-thebody' idea from Your devotees! Herds of gazelles, of boars and of bears come down Your slopes in the night to search for food on the plains. Herds of elephants go from the plains to Your slopes where they may rest. So different herds of animals meet on Your slopes."
Sri Bhagavan continued: So this Hill must have been a dense forest
1,500 years ago. It has since been denuded of the forests by the woodcutters, etc., through these several centuries.

The account of Sri Arunachala given by the mysterious old man to
Jnanasambandar is contained in 300 slokas in Upamanyu's Bhakta
Charita. One of the Archakas of the temple had it with him and showed it to Sri Bhagavan on the occasion of the temple suit within the last few months. Sri Bhagavan copied the slokas.

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Talk 530.

The following is taken from the diary of Annamalai Swami, a good devotee of Sri Bhagavan and resident of Sri Ramanasramam:
The Teachings of Sri Ramana Bhagavan.

(1) That man who is active in the world and yet remains desireless, without losing sight of his own essential nature, is alone a true man.

This was in answer to the Swami who wanted to retire into a cave for practising meditation.

(2) He asked about sannyas. Should not a man renounce everything in order that he might get Liberation?
M.: Even better than the man who thinks "I have renounced everything" is the one who does his duty but does not think "I do this" or "I am the doer". Even a sannyasi who thinks "I am a sannyasi" cannot be a true sannyasi, whereas a householder who does not think "I am a householder" is truly a sannyasi.

Talk 531.

D.: One person says one thing one way. Another says the same thing in a different way. How is the truth to be ascertained?
M.: Each one sees his own Self only, always and everywhere. He finds the world and God according to what he is.

A Nayanar went to Kalahasti for the darsan of God. He saw all the people there as Siva and Sakti because he himself was so. Again,
Dharmaputra considered that the whole world was composed of people having some merit or other and that each of them was even better than he himself for some reason or other. Whereas
Duryodhana could not find even a single good person in the world.

Each reflects his own nature.

Talk 532.

D.: Is there no way of escape from the miseries of the world?
M.: There is only one way and that consists in not losing sight of one's Self under any circumstances.

To enquire "Who am I?" is the only remedy for all the ills of the world. It is also perfect bliss.

529

Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi
Talk 533.

Soon after the announcement in the newspapers that Gandhiji was going to fast for twenty-one days in Yerwada jail, two young men came to
Sri Bhagavan; they were very excited.

They said "Mahatma is now fasting for twenty-one days. We want permission from Sri Bhagavan to run up to Yerwada so that we may also fast as long as he does. Please permit us. We are in a haste to go." Saying so they made ready to rush out.

Sri Bhagavan smiled and said, "It is a good sign that you have such feelings. But what can you do now? Get the strength which Gandhiji has already got by his tapasya. You will afterwards succeed."
Talk 534.

Sri Bhagavan often used to say, "Mowna is the utmost eloquence.

Peace is utmost activity. How? Because the person remains in his essential nature and so he permeates all the recesses of the Self.

Thus he can call up any power into play whenever or wherever it is necessary. That is the highest siddhi."
Annamalai asked: Namadev, Tukaram, Tulsidas and others are said to have seen Maha Vishnu. How did they see Him?
M.: In what manner? Just in the same manner as you see me now and I see you here. They would also have seen Vishnu in this way only.

(He records that, on hearing it, his hairs stood on end and an intense joy overpowered him.)
Talk 535.

Once 'A' asked: How can one be worshipful while engaged in daily work?
Sri Bhagavan did not reply. Ten minutes passed. A few girls came for darsan of Sri Bhagavan. They began to sing and dance. Their song was to the effect: "We will churn the milk without losing thought of Krishna."
Sri Bhagavan turned to the Swami and said that there was the reply to his question.

This state is called Bhakti, Yoga and Karma.

530

Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi
Talk 536.

The person soaked in the "I-am-the-body" idea is the greatest sinner and he is a suicide. The experience of "I-am-the-Self" is the highest virtue. Even a moment's dhyana to that effect is enough to destroy all the sanchita Karma. It works like the sun before whom darkness is dispelled. If one remains always in dhyana, can any sin, however heinous it be, survive his dhyana?
Talk 537.

Once Sri Bhagavan said, "Desire constitutes maya, and desirelessness is God."
Talk 538.

'A' asked: What is the exact difference between worldly activity and dhyana?
M.: There is no difference. It is like naming one and the same thing by two different words in two different languages. The crow has two eyes but only one iris which is rolled into either eye as it pleases.

The trunk of an elephant is used for breathing and for drinking water. The snake sees and hears with the same organ.

Talk 539.

When Sri Bhagavan was going up the hill, the Swami asked: Does the closing or the opening of the eyes make any difference during dhyana?
M.: If you strike on a wall with a rubber-ball and you stand at a distance, the ball rebounds and runs back to you. If you stand near the wall, the ball rebounds and runs away from you. Even if the eyes are closed, the mind follows thoughts.

Talk 540.

Once 'A' asked: There is more pleasure in dhyana than in sensual enjoyments. Yet the mind runs after the latter and does not seek the former. Why is it so?
M.: Pleasure or pain are aspects of the mind only. Our essential nature is happiness. But we have forgotten the Self and imagine that the body or the mind is the Self. It is that wrong identity that gives rise to misery.

531

Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi
What is to be done? This vasana is very ancient and has continued for innumerable past births. Hence it has grown strong. That must go before the essential nature, viz., happiness, asserts itself.

Talk 541.

A certain visitor asked Sri Bhagavan:
There is so much misery in the world because wicked men abound in the world. How can one find happiness here?
M.: All are gurus to us. The wicked say by their evil deeds, "Do not come near me". The good are always good. So then, all persons are like gurus to us.

Talk 542.

'A' asked: I often desire to live in solitude where I can find all I want with ease, so that I may devote all my time to meditation only. Is such a desire good or bad?
M.: Such thoughts will bestow a janma (reincarnation) for their fulfilment.

What does it matter where and how you are placed? The essential point is that the mind must always remain in its source. There is nothing external which is not also internal. The mind is all. If the mind is active even solitude becomes like a market place. There is no use closing your eyes. Close the mental eye and all will be right. The world is not external to you. The good persons will not care to make plans previous to their actions. Why so? For God who has sent us into the world has
His own plan and that will certainly work itself out.

Talk 543.

Many visitors came on one occasion and they all saluted Sri Bhagavan with the single prayer, "Make me a bhakta. Give me moksha." After they left Sri Bhagavan said, thinking aloud: All of them want bhakti and moksha. If I say to them, 'Give yourself to me' they will not. How then can they get what they want?
Talk 544.

On one occasion a few devotees were discussing among themselves the relative merits of some famous bhaktas. They did not agree among themselves and referred the matter to Sri Bhagavan. He remained silent. The discussion grew hot.

532

Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi
Finally Sri Bhagavan said: One cannot know about another nor can confer bondage or release on another. Each one desires to become famous in the world. It is natural for man. But that desire alone does not bring about the end in view. He who is not accepted by God is certainly humiliated. He who has surrendered himself, body and mind, to God becomes famous all over the world.

Talk 545.

'A' was once badly distracted by sexual thoughts.

He fought against them. He fasted three days and prayed to God so that he might be free from such thoughts. Finally, he decided to ask
Sri Bhagavan about it.

Sri Bhagavan listened to him and remained silent for about two minutes. Then He said: Well, the thoughts distracted you and you fought against them. That is good. Why do you continue to think of them now? Whenever such thoughts arise, consider to whom they arise and they will flee away from you.

Talk 546.

'A' asked: A person does something good but he sometimes suffers pain even in his right activities. Another does something wicked but is also happy. Why should it be so?
M.: Pain or pleasure is the result of past Karma and not of the present
Karma. Pain and pleasure alternate with each other. One must suffer or enjoy them patiently without being carried away by them. One must always try to hold on to the Self. When one is active one should not care for the results and must not be swayed by the pain or pleasure met with occasionally. He who is indifferent to pain or pleasure can alone be happy.

Talk 547.

D.: What is the significance of Guru's Grace in the attainment of liberation?
M.: Liberation is not anywhere outside you. It is only within. If a man is anxious for Deliverance, the Guru within pulls him in and the Guru without pushes him into the Self. This is the Grace of the Guru.

533

Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi
Talk 548.

A visitor asked Sri Bhagavan (in writing) the following questions:
(1) Were the differences in the world simultaneous, with creation?
Or are they of later growth? (2) Is the Creator impartial? Then why is one born lame, another blind, and so on? (3) Are the eight Dikpalas, thirty-three crores of gods and the seven rishis existent even today?
M.: Refer these questions to yourself and the answer will be found.

After a pause, Sri Bhagavan continued: if we first know our Self then all other matters will be plain to us. Let us know our Self and then enquire concerning the Creator and creation. Without first knowing the Self, to seek knowledge of God, etc., is ignorance.

A man suffering from jaundice sees everything yellow. If he tells others that all things are yellow who will accept his statement?
The creation is said to have an origin. How? Like a tree and the seed from which it has grown. How was the seed produced? From a similar tree. Where is the end to the series of questions? Therefore one must know one's Self before the world is known.

Talk 549.

Sri Bhagavan often speaks of namaskar (prostration) in the following strain: "This namaskar was originally meant by the ancient sages to serve as a means of surrender to God. The act still prevails but not the spirit behind it. The doer of namaskar intends to deceive the object of worship by his act. It is mostly insincere and deceitful. It is meant to cover up innumerable sins. Can God be deceived? The man thinks that God accepts his namaskar and that he himself is free to continue his old life. They need not come to me. I am not pleased with these namaskars. The people should keep their minds clean; instead of that they bend themselves or lie prostrate before me. I am not deceived by such acts."

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https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/196570.The_Cosmic_Game

The Cosmic Game

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last updated: 2022-02-02 18:12:30
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