object:Talks 125-150
book class:Talks
class:chapter
Talk 125.
The Muslim Professor asked: When I am here my mind is satvic; as soon as I turn my back on this, my mind hankers after so many objects.
M.: Are the objects different from you? There can be no objects without the subject.
D.: And how shall I know it?
M.: Being That, what do you want to know? Are there two selves for the one to know the other?
D.: Again, I repeat, sir, how to know the truth of all this and experience the same?
M.: There is no gaining of anything new. All that is required is to rid the Self of ignorance. This ignorance is the identification of the
Self with the non-Self.
D.: Yes. Still I do not understand. I must have your help. Everyone here is waiting on you for your Grace. You yourself must have sought originally the help of a Guru or of God. Extend that Grace to others now and save me.
Before I came here I desired to see you very much. But somehow
I could not find an opportunity to do so. In Bangalore I made up my mind to return to my place. I met Mr. Frydman and others who sent me here. You have dragged me here. My case is like Paul
Bruntons in Bombay, when he was dragged here having cancelled his passage home.
I hesitated at first on arrival. I wondered if I would be permitted to approach you and converse with you. My doubts were soon set at rest. I find that all are equal here. You have established an equality among all. I dined with you and others. If I should say so to my people in U.P., they would not believe it. The Brahmins would not drink water with me, nor chew pan with me. But here you have taken me and others like me in your fold. Though Gandhi is striving hard he cannot bring about such a state of affairs in the country. I am very happy in your presence.
I regard you as God. I consider Sri Krishna to be true God because
He has said, Whomsoever one may worship, the worshipper worships me only and I save him. Whereas all others have said,
Salvation is through me (meaning himself) only, Krishna alone is so broad-minded and has spoken like God. You observe the same kind of equality.
4th January, 1936
Talk 126.
Dr. Syed again asked: Should anyone desirous of spiritual progress take to action or renunciation (pravritti-marga or nivritti-marga)?
M.: Do you go out of the Self? What is meant by giving up?
An American Engineer asked about sat-sanga (association with sages).
M.: Sat is within us.
D.: In the book Who am I? you have said the Heart is the seat of the mind. Is it so?
M.: The mind is Atman.
D.: Is it Atman itself or its projection?
M.: The same.
D.: The Westerners look on the mind as the highest principle, whereas the Easterners think the contrary - why?
M.: Where psychology ends, there philosophy begins. This is experience; the mind is born; we see it; even without the mind we exist. There is everyones experience to prove it.
D.: In deep sleep I do not seem to exist.
M.: You say so when awake. It is the mind which speaks now. You exist in deep sleep beyond mind.
D.: Western philosophy admits the Higher Self as influencing the mind.
Talk 127.
The American Engineer asked: Does distance have any effect upon
Grace?
M.: Time and space are within us. You are always in your Self. How do time and space affect it?
D.: In radio those who are nearer hear sooner. You are Hindu, we are
American. Does it make any difference?
M.: No.
D.: Even thoughts are read by others.
M.: That shows that all are one.
5th January, 1936
Talk 128.
There were some French ladies and gentlemen and American as visitors to the Asramam. They asked Sri Bhagavan several questions. Among them, one was: What is the message of the East to the West?
M.: All go to the same goal.
To another question Sri Bhagavan said: How do you say I am?
Do you take a light to find yourself? Or did you come to know it on reading books? How?
The questioner said: By experience.
M.: Yes. Experience is the word. Knowledge implies subject and object. But experience is non-terminal, eternal.
6th January, 1936
Talk 129.
An elderly gentleman, formerly a co-worker with B. V. Narasimha Swami and author of some Visishtadvaita work, visited the place for the first time. He asked about rebirths, if it is possible for the linga sarira (subtle body) to get dissolved and be reborn in two years after death.
M.: Yes. Surely. Not only can one be reborn, one may be twenty or forty or even seventy years old in the new body though only two years after death. Sri Bhagavan cited Lilas story from Yoga Vasishta.
Sreyo hi jnanam abhyasat jnanat dhyanam, dhyanat karmaphala tyagah.
Here jnana stands for knowledge without practice; abhyasa stands for practice without knowledge; dhyana stands for practice with knowledge.
Knowledge without practice accompanying it is superior to practice without knowledge. Practice with knowledge is superior to knowledge without practice accompanying it. Karmaphala tyagah Nishkama karma as of a Jnani - action without desire - is superior to knowledge with practice.
D.: What is the difference between yoga and surrender?
M.: Surrender is Bhakti Yoga. To reach the source of the I-thought is the destruction of the ego, is the attainment of the goal, is prapatti
(surrender), jnana, etc.
Talk 130.
Lakshman Brahmachari from Sri Ramakrishna Mission asked:
Enquiry of Who am I? or of the I-thought being itself a thought, how can it be destroyed in the process?
M.: When Sita was asked who was her husb and among the rishis
(Rama himself being present there as a rishi) in the forest by the wives of the rishis, she denied each one as he was pointed out to her, but simply hung down her head when Rama was pointed out.
Her silence was eloquent.
Similarly, the Vedas also are eloquent in neti - neti (not this - not this) and then remain silent. Their silence is the Real State. This is the meaning of exposition by silence. When the source of the Ithought is reached it vanishes and what remains over is the Self.
D.: Patanjali Yoga Sutras speak of identification.
M.: Identification with the Supreme is only the other name for the destruction of the ego.
Talk 131.
Mr. Subba Rao asked: What is mukhya prana (the chief prana)?
M.: It is that from which the ego and the prana rise. It is sometimes called Kundalini. Consciousness is not born at any time, it remains eternal. But ego is born; so also the other thoughts. Associated with the absolute consciousness they shine forth; not otherwise.
D.: What is moksha (liberation)?
M.: Moksha is to know that you were not born. Be still and know that I am God.
To be still is not to think. Know, and not think, is the word.
D.: There are said to be six organs of different colours in the chest, of which the heart is said to be two finger-breadths to the right of
Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi the middle line. But the Heart is also formless. Should we then imagine it to have a shape and meditate on it?
M.: No. Only the quest Who am I? is necessary. What remains all through deep sleep and waking is the same. But in waking there is unhappiness and the effort to remove it. Asked who wakes up from sleep you say I. Now you are told to hold fast to this I.
If it is done the eternal Being will reveal Itself. Investigation of I is the point and not meditation on the heart-centre. There is nothing like within or without. Both mean either the same thing or nothing.
Of course there is also the practice of meditation on the heartcentre. It is only a practice and not investigation. Only the one who meditates on the heart can remain aware when the mind ceases to be active and remains still; whereas those who meditate on other centres cannot be so aware but infer that the mind was still only after it becomes again active.
Talk 132.
An educated man asked: Is there an Absolute Being? What is its relation to the relative existence?
M.: Are they different from each other? All the questions arise only in the mind. The mind arises with waking and subsides in deep sleep. As long as there is a mind, so long will there be such questions and doubts.
D.: There must be stage after stage of progress for gaining the
Absolute. Are there grades of Reality?
M.: There are no grades of Reality. There are grades of experience for the jiva and not of Reality. If anything can be gained anew, it could also be lost, whereas the Absolute is central - here and now.
D.: If so, how do I remain ignorant of it (avarana)?
M.: For whom is this ignorance (veiling)? Does the Absolute tell you that it is veiled? It is the jiva who says that something veils the
Absolute. Find out for whom this ignorance is.
D.: Why is there imperfection in Perfection? That is, how did the
Absolute become relative?
M.: For whom is this relativity? For whom is this imperfection? The
Absolute is not imperfect and cannot ask. The insentient cannot ask the question. Between the two something has risen up which raises these questions and which feels this doubt. Who is it? Is it the one who has now arisen? Or is it the one who is eternal?
Being perfect, why do you feel yourself imperfect? Such is the teaching of all the religions. Whatever may be the experiences, the experiencer is one and the same.
I is purna - perfection. There is no diversity in sleep. That indicates perfection.
D.: Being perfect, why do I not feel it?
M.: Nor is imperfection felt in deep sleep. The I in sleep being perfect, why does the waking I feel imperfect? Because the one who feels imperfect is a spurious offshoot, a differentiation from the Infinite - a segregation from God.
D.: I am the same in all the three states. Did this ego submerge me or did I entangle myself into it?
M.: Did anything come up without you?
D.: I am always the same.
M.: Because you see it, this appears to have come up. Did you feel this difficulty in deep sleep? What is new now?
D.: The senses and the mind.
M.: Who says this? Is it the sleeper? If so he should have raised the question in deep sleep also. The sleeper has been lost hold of, some spurious offshoot has differentiated himself and speaks now.
Can anything new appear without that which is eternal and perfect? This kind of dispute is itself eternal. Do not engage in it. Turn inward and put an end to all this. There will be no finality in disputations.
D.: Show me that Grace which puts an end to all this trouble. I have not come here to argue. I want only to learn.
M.: Learn first what you are. This requires no sastras, no scholarship.
This is simple experience. The state of being is now and here all along. You have lost hold of yourself and are asking others for
Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi guidance. The purpose of philosophy is to turn you inward. If you know your Self, no evil can come to you. Since you asked me
I have taught you.
The ego comes up only holding you (the Self). Hold yourself and the ego will vanish. Until then the sage will be saying, There is.
- The ignorant will be asking Where?
D.: The crux of the problem lies in Know Thyself.
M.: Yes. Quite so.
Talk 133.
There are two schools in Advaita: (1) Drishti srishti (simultaneous creation) and (2) Srishti drishti (gradual creation).
There is the Tantric Advaita which admits three fundamentals jagat, jiva, Isvara - world, soul, God. These three are also real. But the reality does not end with them. It extends beyond. That is the Tantric
Advaita. The Reality is limitless. The three fundamentals do not exist apart from the Absolute Reality. All agree that Reality is all-pervading; thus Isvara pervades the jiva; therefore the jiva has eternal being. His knowledge is not limited. Limited knowledge is only imagined by him. In truth, his is infinite knowledge. Its limit is Silence. This truth was revealed by Dakshinamurti. For those who still perceive these three fundamentals they are said to be realities. They are concomitant with the ego.
True, the images of gods are described in great detail. Such description points only to the final Reality. Otherwise why is the special significance of each detail also given? Think. The image is only a symbol. Only that which lies beyond name and form is Reality.
Saiva Siddhanta and Vedanta have the common aim of the same Truth.
Otherwise how could Sri Sankaracharya, the greatest exponent of
Advaita, sing praises of gods? Obviously he did so knowingly.
The questioner earnestly explained that his faith in Saiva Siddhanta,
Vedanta, etc., was shaken after reading Bahaic literature. Please save me, he said.
M.: Know the Self which is here and now; you will be steady and not waver.
D.: The Bahaists read others minds.
M.: Yes. That is possible. Your thoughts were read by another. There must be one to know your mind. That is the Truth always present which is to be realised. Truth does not waver.
D.: Show me Grace.
M.: Grace always is, and is not given. Why do you consider the pros and cons of Bahaullah or others being incarnations or otherwise? Know
Thyself. Regard everything as Truth. Regard him also as the Truth. Can he exist besides Truth? Your beliefs may change but not Truth.
D.: Show me the truth of Siddhanta, etc.
M.: Follow their instructions and then if you have doubts you may ask. Adherence to those instructions will take you only to mouna.
Differences are perceived in external objects only. If you follow their instructions all differences will be lost. No one but the son of a king can be called a prince; so also only That which is perfect is called Perfection.
One should not be content with mere discipleship, initiation, ceremony of surrender, etc.; these are external phenomena. Never forget the Truth underlying all phenomena.
D.: What is the significance of the Silence of Dakshinamurti?
M.: Many are the explanations given by scholars and sages. Have it any way you please.
14th January, 1936
Talk 134.
A question about the Heart was raised.
Sri Bhagavan said that one should seek the Self and realise it. The
Heart will play its part automatically. The seat of realisation is the
Heart. It cannot be said to be either in or out.
D.: Did Bhagavan feel the Heart as the point of Realisation in his first or early experience?
M.: I began to use the word after seeing literature on the subject. I correlated it with my experience.
15th January, 1936
Talk 135.
Three European ladies from the Theosophical Conference came here and asked: Is the whole scheme, the Plan, really good? Or is it in the nature of an error, a mistake of which we have to make the best?
M.: The Plan is indeed good. The error is on our part. When we correct it in ourselves the whole scheme becomes all right.
D.: Have you any formula to teach us how to bring it about through a remembrance of what we do during sleep?
M.: No formula is needed. Everyone has the experience that he slept happily and knew nothing then. Nothing else was experienced.
D.: The answer does not satisfy me. We wander in the astral plane in our sleep but we do not remember it.
M.: The astral plane is concerned with dreams, not with deep sleep.
D.: What do you consider to be the cause of world suffering? And how can we help to change it, (a) as individuals? or (b) collectively?
M.: Realise the Real Self. It is all that is necessary.
D.: Can we hasten our illumination for greater service? and how?
M.: As we are not able to help ourselves, so we have to surrender ourselves to the Supreme completely. Then He will take care of us as well as the world.
D.: What do you consider the goal?
M.: Self-Realisation.
D.: Is there any way to meet the appointed Guru for each?
M.: Intense meditation brings it about.
Talk 136.
Dr. G. H. Mees, a young Dutchman, was here for a few days. He asked Sri Bhagavan: I have an impression that in deep sleep I have something akin to samadhi. Is it so?
M.: It is the waking I that asks the questions - not the I in sleep. If you attain the state of wakeful sleep which is the same as samadhi, while still awake, doubts will not arise.
Samadhi is ones natural state. It is the under-current in all the three states. This - that is, I - is not in those states, but these states are in It. If we get samadhi in our waking state that will persist in deep sleep also. The distinction between consciousness and unconsciousness belongs to the realm of mind, which is transcended by the state of the Real Self.
D.: Is the Buddhist view, that there is no continuous entity answering to the ideas of the individual soul, correct or not? Is this consistent with the Hindu notion of a reincarnating ego? Is the soul a continuous entity which reincarnates again and again, according to the Hindu doctrine, or is it a mere mass of mental tendencies - samskaras?
M.: The Real Self is continuous and unaffected. The reincarnating ego belongs to the lower plane, namely, thought. It is transcended by Self-Realisation.
Reincarnations are due to a spurious offshoot. Therefore it is denied by the Buddhists. The present state is due to a mixing up of the chit (sentient) with jada (insentient).
Talk 137.
Lakshman Brahmachari of Sri Ramakrishna Mission asked: Can one imagine oneself as witness of the thoughts?
M.: It is not the natural state. It is only an idea (bhavana) - an aid to stilling the mind. The Self is ever the witness, whether so imagined or not. There is no need to so imagine except for that purpose. But it is best to remain as ones Self.
Talk 138.
The Financial Secretary of Mysore asked: Is Paul Bruntons Secret
Path useful for Indians as well?
M.: Yes - for all.
D.: The body, the senses, etc. are not I. This is common amongst us. But how to practise it?
M.: By the threefold method mentioned therein.
D.: Is breath-control necessary for enquiry?
M.: Not quite.
D.: There is a blankness intervening, it is said in the book.
M.: Yes. Do not stop there. See for whom the blankness appears.
D.: For devotees there is no blankness, it is said.
M.: Even there, there is the latent state, laya; the mind wakes up after some time.
D.: What is the experience of samadhi?
M.: It is as it is. For onlookers it may seem to be a swoon. Even to the practiser it may appear so in the early experiences. After a few repeated experiences it will be all right.
D.: Do they soo the nadis or do they excite them by such experiences?
M.: They are excited at first. By continued experience it becomes common and the man is no longer excited.
D.: Proceeding on safe lines there should be no unpleasantness.
Excitement is uncongenial to smooth being and working.
M.: A wandering mind is on the wrong way; only a devotional mind is on the right way.
19th January, 1936
Talk 139.
Mr. Ellappa Chettiar, a Member of the Legislative Council, from
Salem, asked: Is it enough to introvert the mind or should we meditate on I am Brahman?
M.: To introvert the mind is the prime thing. The Buddhists consider the flow of I thought to be Liberation; whereas we say that such flow proceeds from its underlying substratum - the only - Reality.
Why should one be meditating I am Brahman? Only the annihilation of I is Liberation. But it can be gained only by keeping the I-I always in view. So the need for the investigation of the I thought. If the I is not let go, no blank can result to the seeker. Otherwise meditation will end in sleep.
There is only one I all along, but what arises up from time to time is the mistaken I-thought; whereas the intuitive I always remains
Self-shining, i.e., even before it becomes manifest.
The birth of the gross body does not amount to ones own birth, on the other hand, the birth of the ego is ones own birth.
For liberation, nothing new remains to be gained. It is the original state and continues unchanged too.
Talk 140.
D.: What is reality?
M.: Reality must be always real. It is not with forms and names. That which underlies these is the Reality. It underlies limitations, being itself limitless. It is not bound. It underlies unrealities, itself being real. Reality is that which is. It is as it is. It transcends speech, beyond the expressions, e.g., existence, non-existence, etc.
Talk 141.
The same gentleman later, after quoting a verse from Kaivalya, asked:
Can jnana be lost after being once attained?
M.: Jnana, once revealed, takes time to steady itself. The Self is certainly within the direct experience of everyone, but not as one imagines it to be. It is only as it is. This Experience is samadhi. Just as fire remains without scorching against incantations or other devices but scorches otherwise, so also the Self remains veiled by vasanas and reveals itself when there are no vasanas. Owing to the fluctuation of the vasanas, jnana takes time to steady itself. Unsteady jnana is not enough to check rebirths. Jnana cannot remain unshaken side by side with vasanas. True, that in the proximity of a great master, the vasanas will cease to be active, the mind becomes still and samadhi results, similar to fire not scorching because of other devices. Thus the disciple gains true knowledge and right experience in the presence of the master. To remain unshaken in it further efforts are necessary.
He will know it to be his real Being and thus be liberated even while alive. Samadhi with closed eyes is certainly good, but one must go further until it is realised that actionlessness and action are not hostile to each other. Fear of loss of samadhi while one is active is the sign of ignorance. Samadhi must be the natural life of everyone.
There is a state beyond our efforts or effortlessness. Until it is realised effort is necessary. After tasting such Bliss, even once
Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi one will repeatedly try to regain it. Having once experienced the
Bliss of Peace no one would like to be out of it or engaged himself otherwise. It is as difficult for a Jnani to engage in thoughts as it is for an ajnani to be free from thought.
The common man says that he does not know himself; he thinks many thoughts and cannot remain without thinking.
Any kind of activity does not affect a Jnani; his mind remains ever in eternal Peace.
20th January, 1936
Talk 142.
Mr. Prakasa Rao from Bezwada: Does not illusion become inoperative even before identity with Brahman results (Brahmakaravritti)? Or does it persist even afterwards?
M.: Illusion will not persist after vasanas are annihilated. In the interval between the knowledge of the identity and annihilation of vasanas, there will be illusion.
D.: How can the world influence a man even after identity with Brahman?
M.: First do it and see. You can then raise this question, if necessary.
D.: Can we know it in the same way as we know our identity?
M.: Are you different from the mind? How do you expect it to be known?
D.: Can the full scope of the Chitta (Chittavilasa) be known?
M.: Oh! Is this the identity of Brahman?
Ignorance vanishing, the residue reveals itself. It is experience, not in the category of knowledge.
23rd January, 1936
Talk 143.
Mr. P. Brunton asked Sri Bhagavan if the Hill here is hollow.
M.: The puranas say so. When it is said that the Heart is a cavity, penetration into it proves it to be an expanse of light. Similarly the
Hill is one of light. The caves, etc., are covered up by the Light.
D.: Are there caves inside?
M.: In visions I have seen caves, cities with streets, etc., and a whole world in it.
D.: Are there Siddhas too in it?
M.: All the Siddhas are reputed to be there.
D.: Are there only Siddhas or others also?
M.: Just like this world.
D.: Siddhas are said to be in the Himalayas.
M.: Kailas is on the Himalayas: it is the abode of Siva. Whereas this
Hill is Siva Himself. All the paraphernalia of His abode must also be where He Himself is.
D.: Does Bhagavan believe that the Hill is hollow, etc.?
M.: Everything depends on the viewpoint of the individual. You yourself have seen hermitages, etc., on this Hill in a vision. You have described such in your book.
D.: Yes. It was on the surface of the Hill. The vision was within me.
M.: That is exactly so. Everything is within ones Self. To see the world, there must be a spectator. There could be no world without the Self. The Self is all-comprising. In fact Self is all. There is nothing besides the Self.
D.: What is the mystery of this Hill?
M.: Just as you have said in Secret Egypt, The mystery of the pyramid is the mystery of the Self, so also the mystery of this Hill is the mystery of the Self.
Maj. Chadwick: I do not know if the Self is different from the ego.
M.: How were you in your deep sleep?
D.: I do not know.
M.: Who does not know? Is it not the waking Self? Do you deny your existence in your deep sleep?
D.: I was and I am; but I do not know who was in deep sleep.
M.: Exactly. The man awake says that he did not know anything in the state of sleep. Now he sees the objects and knows that he is there; whereas in deep sleep there were no objects, no spectator, etc.
The same one who is now speaking was in deep sleep also. What is the difference between these two states? There are objects and play of senses now which were not in sleep. A new entity, the ego, has risen up in the meantime, it plays through the senses, sees the objects, confounds itself with the body and says that the Self is the ego. In reality, what was in deep sleep continues to exist now too. The Self is changeless. It is the ego that has come between. That which rises and sets is the ego; that which remains changeless is the Self.
Talk 144.
Mr. Prakasa Rao: What is the root-cause of maya?
M.: What is maya?
D.: Maya is wrong knowledge, illusion.
M.: For whom is the illusion? There must be one to be deluded.
Illusion is ignorance. The ignorant Self sees the objects according to you. When the objects are not themselves present how can maya exist? Maya is ya ma (maya is what is not). What remains over is the true Self. If you say that you see the objects, or if you say that you do not know the Real Unity, then are there two selves, one the knower and the other the knowable object. No one will admit of two selves in himself. The awakened man says that he himself was in deep slumber but not aware. He does not say that the sleeper was different from the present one. There is only one Self. That Self is always aware. It is changeless. There is nothing but the Self.
D.: What is the astral body?
M.: Do you not have a body in your dream? Is it not different from the recumbent body on the bed?
D.: Do we survive after death? Does the astral body outlive physical death?
M.: Just as in dreams you wake up after several novel experiences, so also after physical death another body is found and so on.
D.: They say that the astral body lives for forty years after death.
M.: In the present body you say the dream body is astral. Did you say so in the dream body? What is astral now would appear real then, the present body itself is astral according to that viewpoint. What
Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi is the difference between one astral body and another? There is no difference between the two.
Mr. P. Brunton: There are degrees of reality.
M.: To say the dream body is unreal now, and to say that this body was unreal in the dream, does not denote degrees of reality. In deep sleep there is no experience of the body at all. There is always only one and that is the Self.
Talk 145.
Mr. P. Brunton: Why do religions speak of Gods, heaven, hell, etc.?
M.: Only to make the people realise that they are on a par with this world and that the Self alone is real. The religions are according to the view-point of the seeker. Take the Bhagavad Gita for instance:
When Arjuna said that he would not fight against his own relatives, his elders, etc., in order to kill them and gain the kingdom, Sri
Krishna said, Not that these, you or I, were not before, are not now, nor will not be hereafter. Nothing was born, nothing was dead, nor will it not be so hereafter and so on. Later as he developed the theme and declared that He had given the same instruction to the
Sun, through him to Ikshvaku, etc. Arjuna raised the doubt, How could it be? You were born a few years ago. They lived ages ago.
Then Sri Krishna understanding Arjunas standpoint, said: Yes.
There have been so many incarnations of myself and yourself, I know them all but you do not know.
Such statements appear contradictory, but still they are correct according to the viewpoint of the questioner. The Christ also declared that He was even before Abraham.
D.: What is the purpose of such descriptions in religions?
M.: Only to establish the Reality of the Self.
D.: Bhagavan always speaks from the highest standpoint.
Sri Bhagavan (with a smile): People would not understand the simple and bare truth - the truth of their every day, ever-present and eternal experience. That Truth is that of the Self. Is there anyone not aware of the Self? They would not even like to hear it (the Self), whereas they are eager to know what lies beyond - heaven, hell,
Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi reincarnation. Because they love mystery and not the bare truth, religions pamper them - only to bring them round to the Self.
Wandering hither and thither you must return to the Self only. Then, why not abide in the Self even here and now?
The other worlds require the Self as a spectator or speculator. Their reality is only of the same degrees as that of the spectator or thinker.
They cannot exist without the spectator, etc. Therefore they are not different from the Self. Even the ignorant man sees only the Self when he sees objects. But he is confused and identifies the Self with the object, i.e., the body and with the senses and plays in the world. Subject and object - all merge in the Self. There is no seer nor objects seen. The seer and the seen are the Self. There are not many selves either. All are only one Self.
26th January, 1936
Talk 146.
In reply to Miss Leena Sarabhai, a cultured Indian lady of high rank,
Sri Bhagavan said: The state of equanimity is the state of bliss. The declaration in the Vedas I am This or That, is only an aid to gain equanimity of mind.
D.: So, it is wrong to begin with a goal: is it?
M.: If there be a goal to be reached it cannot be permanent. The goal must already be there. We seek to reach the goal with the ego, but the goal exists before the ego. What is in the goal is even prior to our birth, i.e., to the birth of the ego. Because we exist the ego appears to exist too.
If we look on the Self as the ego then we become the ego, if as the mind we become the mind, if as the body we become the body.
It is the thought which builds up sheaths in so many ways. The shadow on the water is found to be shaking. Can anyone stop the shaking of the shadow? If it should cease to shake you would not notice the water but only the light. Similarly to take no notice of the ego and its activities, but see only the light behind. The ego is the I-thought. The true I is the Self.
D.: It is one step to realisation.
M.: Realisation is already there. The state free from thoughts is the only real state. There is no such action as Realisation. Is there anyone who is not realising the Self? Does anyone deny his own existence? Speaking of realisation, it implies two selves - the one to realise, the other to be realised. What is not already realised, is sought to be realised. Once we admit our existence, how is it that we do not know our Self?
D.: Because of the thoughts - the mind.
M.: Quite so. It is the mind that stands between and veils our happiness. How do we know that we exist? If you say because of the world around us, then how do you know that you existed in deep sleep?
D.: How to get rid of the mind?
M.: Is it the mind that wants to kill itself? The mind cannot kill itself.
So your business is to find the real nature of the mind. Then you will know that there is no mind. When the Self is sought, the mind is nowhere. Abiding in the Self, one need not worry about the mind.
D.: How to get rid of fear?
M.: What is fear? It is only a thought. If there is anything besides the Self there is reason to fear. Who sees the second (anything external)? First the ego arises and sees objects as external. If the ego does not rise, the Self alone exists and there is no second
(nothing external). For anything external to oneself implies the seer within. Seeking it there will arise no doubt, no fear - not only fear, all other thoughts centred round the ego will disappear along with it.
D.: This method seems to be quicker than the usual one of cultivating qualities alleged necessary for salvation (sadhana chatushtaya)?
M.: Yes. All bad qualities centre round the ego. When the ego is gone
Realisation results by itself. There are neither good nor bad qualities in the Self. The Self is free from all qualities. Qualities pertain to the mind only. It is beyond quality. If there is unity, there will also be duality. The numeral one gives rise to other numbers. The truth is neither one nor two. IT is as it is.
D.: The difficulty is to be in the thought-free state.
M.: Leave the thought-free state to itself. Do not think of it as pertaining to you. Just as when you walk, you involuntarily take steps, so too in your actions; but the thought-free state is not affected by your actions.
D.: What is it that is discriminative in action?
M.: Discrimination will be automatic, intuitive.
D.: So Intuition alone matters; Intuition develops also.
M.: Those who have discovered great Truths have done so in the still depths of the Self.
The ego is like ones shadow thrown on the ground. If one attempts to bury it, it will be foolish. The Self is only one. If limited it is the ego. If unlimited it is Infinite and is the Reality.
The bubbles are different from one another and numerous, but the ocean is only one. Similarly the egos are many, whereas the Self is one and only one.
When told that you are not the ego, realise the Reality. Why do you still identify yourself with the ego? It is like saying, Dont think of the monkey while taking medicine - it is impossible. Similarly it happens with common folk. When the Reality is mentioned why do you continue to meditate Sivoham or Aham Brahmasmi? The significance must be traced and understood. It is not enough to repeat the bare words or think of them.
Reality is simply the loss of the ego. Destroy the ego by seeking its identity. Because the ego is no entity it will automatically vanish and Reality will shine forth by itself. This is the direct method.
Whereas all other methods are done, only retaining the ego. In those paths there arise so many doubts and the eternal question remains to be tackled finally. But in this method the final question is the only one and it is raised from the very beginning. No sadhanas are necessary for engaging in this quest.
There is no greater mystery than this - viz., ourselves being the
Reality we seek to gain Reality. We think that there is something hiding our Reality and that it must be destroyed before the Reality is gained. It is ridiculous. A day will dawn when you will yourself laugh at your past efforts. That which will be on the day you laugh is also here and now.
D.: So it is a great game of pretending?
M.: Yes.
In Yoga Vasishtha it is said, What is Real is hidden from us, but what is false, is revealed as true. We are actually experiencing the Reality only; still, we do not know it. Is it not a wonder of wonders?
The quest Who am I? is the axe with which to cut off the ego.
Talk 147.
In answer to a Canarese Sanyasi, Sri Bhagavan said: There are different grades of mind. Realisation is of Perfection. It cannot be comprehended by the mind. Sarvajnatva (the state of all-knowing) is to be sarvam (the all); the all pertains only to the mind. The known and unknown together form the all. After transcending the mind you remain as the Self. The present knowledge is only of limitation. That
Knowledge is unlimited. Being so it cannot be comprehended by this knowledge. Cease to be a knower, then there is perfection.
27th January, 1936
Talk 148.
A Gujerati gentleman said that he was concentrating on sound - nada
- and desired to know if the method was right.
M.: Meditation on nada is one of the several approved methods.
The adherents claim a very special virtue for the method.
According to them it is the easiest and the most direct method.
Just as a child is lulled to sleep by lullabies, so nada soothes one to the state of samadhi; again just as a king sends his state musicians to welcome his son on his return from a long journey, so also nada takes the devotee into the Lords Abode in a pleasing manner. Nada helps concentration. After it is felt the practice should not be made an end in itself. Nada is not the objective; the subject should firmly be held; otherwise a blank will result. Though the subject is there even in the blank he would not be aware of the cessation of nada of different kinds.
In order to be aware even in that blank one must remember his own self. Nada upasana (meditation on sound) is good; it is
Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi better if associated with investigation (vichara). In that case the nada is made up of chinmaya and also tanmaya (of Knowledge and of Self). Nada helps concentration.
28th January, 1936
Talk 149.
In reply to a sadhu who asked if bhakti consisted in forgetting the body, etc. Sri Bhagavan said:
What do you care for the body? Practise bhakti and dont worry about what happens to the body.
Talk 150.
Mrs. and Mr. Kelly, an elderly couple from America, and others of their company desired to know what they should do to gain concentration in face of discomforts of sitting and the sting of mosquitoes, etc.
M.: The discomforts will not worry you if your concentration is right.
Do not mind the discomforts. Keep your mind steady in meditation.
If you have not the strength and endurance to bear mosquito stings how do you hope to gain realisation of the Self? Realisation must be amidst all the turmoils of life. If you make yourself comfortable and go to bed you fall asleep. Face the troubles but keep yourself steady in meditation.
31st January, 1936
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