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object:2.19 - Feb-May 1939
book class:Evening Talks With Sri Aurobindo
author class:A B Purani
subject class:Integral Yoga
class:chapter


FEBRUARY-MAY 1939
FEBRUARY-MAY 1939
3 FEBRUARY 1939

A letter from a sadhika was read to Sri Aurobindo in which she related some experiences which came to her at the beginning of her taking up the Yoga: losing consciousness, the mind floating about as it were, lightning strokes in the head, and a feeling of some Presence. But these experiences gave her great fear and she complained of bad health.

Sri Aurobindo: You can tell her that what she calls losing of consciousness is its movement inwards. It is rather unusual to get these experiences at the outset. Usually, one takes months and months to make the mind quiet and she did it at the first sitting. The lightning strokes is the action of the Higher Power or Yoga Shakti, to make the Adhar fit for Yoga. All these things show that she has capacity for the Yoga. But she must get rid of fear. Otherwise, all the experiences will stop. The letter shows that her inner mind is ready but her vital and the physical are not — one is full of fear and the other suffers from bad health, as she herself says. This produces a conflict in the being which is not desirable. It may be better for her not to take up Yoga seriously until she has restored her health.

But the most important thing is to get rid of fear.

Disciple: But how to get rid of it?

Sri Aurobindo: That is the difficulty many complain of. When one takes up Yoga all sorts of experiences come which are out of the run of ordinary consciousness; and if one fears, Yoga is not possible. It has to be got rid of by the mind, by psychological training and will-power. Any human being worth the name has a will and it has to be exercised or developed. She can ask for the protection of the Divine, lay herself in the hands of the Divine. As Vivekananda very insistently said, the Yogi must be abhīḥ, without fear.

I don't know whether I told you about my experience. Once, after my meeting with Lele, I was meditating at Calcutta. I felt a tremendous calm and then felt as if my breath would stop. A silly fear, or rather an apprehension, caught hold of me and I said: "If my breath stops how shall I live?" At once the experience stopped and never came back again.

There are all sorts of experiences. What will you do if you feel your head being drilled, as if a nail were being thrust inside?

Disciple: Why cant the experiences come quietly?

Sri Aurobindo: The experiences come quietly but you make a row! If your physical head or body is being split then you could object to it. You ought to know by now that all these experiences are in the subtle body.

Disciple: I had also once or twice such fear of a Presence as the lady speaks of. As soon as I sat to meditate before going to bed at about midnight I felt everything still, and as if there was some Presence. That frightened me.

Sri Aurobindo: Why? You thought it was the Devil that brought the stillness? But the Devil usually makes a row. Two things are necessary in Yoga: to get rid of fear and to know the ordinary symbols.

(Turning to P) You know Velji, once in meditation, saw some golden beings coming down and telling him, "Now we will cut up your body and make it new." He cried out: "Never, never." He thought that his physical body was going to be cut. But the symbolism is quite clear: the old elements in his nature would be thrown away and new ones brought in.

Disciple: I was surprised to hear that afterwards he turned to Jainism.

Sri Aurobindo: Was he Jain by birth?

Disciple: Yes.

Sri Aurobindo: Well, that often happens. In one's vital and physical nature there remains a stamp of one's ancestral religion and it comes out some times. The Christians usually turn towards Catholicism. A Frenchman, I forgot his name, tried all sorts of things, mysticism, Tibetan occultism, etc., and came into touch with our Pavitra who told him that these things wont go with Yoga. He abandoned all connections and turned to Catholicism. He wrote a book afterwards, stealing passages from Pavitra's letters and using them in support of Catholicism. It was that that disgusted Pavitra.

My grandfather started by being a Brahmo and ended by writing a book on Hinduism and proclaiming it as the best religion in the world.

( After a pause, turning to P) So Subhas has met Nehru.

Disciple: Yes, Nehru may act as a mediator and Tagore may be the peace-maker between the two parties.

Sri Aurobindo: Subhas speaks of direct action after six months. But what sort of direct action? It seems Gandhi will leave him to form his own working committee; it will be a great blunder if Gandhi did that. And with Gandhi left out, what direct action can Subhas take? Will he and his followers take off their coats and fight? or reject seats in the Assembly? Salt Satyagraha is out of the question. Breaking laws? But then the Government will bring in the Moderates and rule through them so long as you don't send better men! No-tax campaign? But that is a tremendous affair. Gandhi himself says the country is not ready for it. I don't think Subhas has so much influence or capacity to make it successful as an all-India movement. Neither does he himself believe in nonviolence. His followers don't seem to know their own minds.

Disciple: Tagore wants Subhas to compromise with Gandhi, for he knows that Gandhi is an international figure.

Sri Aurobindo: Not only that, his word counts. He hasn't lost that force yet. I think if he made a public statement that he wants Pattabhi to be elected, he would have him elected. But there are still six months to inaugurate the Federation; what is Subhas going to do in the meantime? Gandhi knew that Subhas will take up this attitude and hence he did not want him. Now with his followers left out of the working committee, the leftists will probably pass laws abolishing zamindars and capitalists and spoil the work done by the Ministers. They will try to introduce social legislations and that would make the Governors use their powers, or, if they keep out of the assemblies, it would be foolish to throw away the powers given. Before I left politics, I had written: If you get real power, take it and fight for more. Like De Valera, who took what was given and grabbed at more. In the present international situation when the Government wants to come to a compromise with the Congress you should accept what they give. Accept the Federation and fight against it afterwards.

Disciple: That seems to be Subhas's opinion, but he says: Now is the time to press for independence.

Sri Aurobindo: That would be all right if the country was prepared for revolution, so that even if he and a few others were hanged the movement could go on and ultimately the Government would have to yield as in Ireland. There, the lives of the people who went against the Government were not safe. If one is not prepared for that then one has to proceed in subtler ways. But what Bose claims now is impossible to get. It will only set the Government against you and they will try to crush the movement.

Disciple: But if they work this provincial programme and prepare the country at the same time, and press the States to give rights to the people, then we might get what we want without revolution.

Sri Aurobindo: Exactly. It is a clever drive to bring in the States question, and if they can carry it through, the Federation with the Princes will break down and only the Muslim question will remain. Subhas has not done a wise thing.

Disciple: People are severely criticising Gandhi's statement.

Sri Aurobindo: Only the leftists are doing that. No right-wing man has said anything except S. C. Das.

( A long pause of silence)

The British people have one weakness: they can't drive things to the extreme. They can't go on like some other nations with methods of suppression for a long time. They have their prestige to keep before the world and they want popular support. So they come in the end to a compromise. France also comes to a compromise, but takes a longer time. But Germany or Italy don't hesitate to go to the extreme limit. For instance, in Palestine, the British Government had almost succeeded in crushing the terrorists. If they had persisted they could have easily put Nahashiby against the Mufti and ruled the Arabs by the Arabs. But they could not go on and now they have called the Palestine Conference. If the Mufti is clever he will be able to get as much as possible, but not the whole of it. In Ireland also the British came to a compromise; even the Conservatives turned round. France gave in in Syria, but the Syrians had to fight for it after the last war. In Tunisia, they have put the Destourians in prison, but if they can keep up, France will give in.

Disciple: Roosevelt seems to have declared for democracy. In that case the three powers combined may stem the tide of the dictators.

Disciple: Now Hitler will think twice before he tries to do anything.

Sri Aurobindo: Yes, if he is capable of thinking. His inner voice may ask him to push on. Mussolini may think twice unless he is too Hitlerised. In that case Hitler will say: "I have given you a chance for the colonies. If you don't take it up I will go to the Ukraine." Mussolini may not like that. But Hitler also may not come to war: during the Czech crisis, it was by mere bluff that he succeeded. He knew from private sources that England and France wouldn't fight.

Disciple: Roosevelt has promised France armaments and the U.S.A. is selling aeroplanes and other materials. That would mean they may come to her help if she is attacked.

Sri Aurobindo: But it is doubtful if he can carry the nation with him. The armaments are increased for Americas own defence, and if they are exported people may think it will involve them in a war. At any rate, his speech has come as a great blow to both Italy and Germany. Chamberlain also may think of supporting France now. A remarkable man, this Roosevelt, he is very bold and ready to experiment and take risks. It is the old Roosevelt blood, only the first Roosevelt was Fascist. This one is more refined.

Disciple: Jean Herbert says that there may not be any war after all.

Sri Aurobindo: Yes, if the British and the French people go on yielding to the demands of the dictators. The British may say to Germany: "We will supply you raw materials, you can come and settle here."

Disciple (to another disciple) : Have you seen that Hidayatullah has become a Minister of Sindh?

Disciple: Has he? Allah Bux has won him over, it means. From leader of the opposition to a Minister. He made a lot of money from the Sukkur Barrage Scheme during his ministry in Bombay, before the Congress government.

Sri Aurobindo: How?

Disciple: He used to sell plots of land to customers through his agents and kept some of the best ones for himself. There were similar charges against some Ministers in the Central Provinces.

Disciple: Though people bitterly criticize the High Command, it has done a good job.

Sri Aurobindo: Yes. It is the High Command and Gandhi's dictatorship that has kept the country together. This sort of corruption may be found in America and even in France, but you will not find it in England. The public life there is honest and sincere. They may tell lies and may break their promises, but bribery or appropriation of money hardly exists in their public or political administration. As they say, "These things are not done." If a political leader does that sort of thing he is finished for life. Thomas, you know, is wiped out, nobody hears of him now. The judges make no distinction between a rich criminal and a poor one.
5 FEBRUARY 1939

Disciple: Herbert's wife, Lizelle, is collecting Nivedita's letters for a book that she is writing on Nivedita. In one of them, Nivedita mentions that you gave her the charge of editing the Bande Mataram after you left Calcutta.

Sri Aurobindo: No. It was the Karmayogin. You can tell her that. There is no harm now in saying it, as it was a long time ago. I saw Nivedita before I left Calcutta for Chandernagore. It was from her that I got the news of my contemplated arrest. She had many friends in government circles. Then I published my political will — that stopped the arrest.

Disciple: It seems Nivedita travelled to India, in 1910 or 1911, under an assumed name to evade arrest.

Sri Aurobindo: She died in Darjeeling; she did not die under an assumed name.

(After a pause) We were talking about Jainism yesterday. Isn't it to transcend Nature and to conquer it that they do these violent tapasyas, and not from an idea of world-illusion?

Disciple: Yes, that is their idea.

Sri Aurobindo: Then their aim seems to be the same as ours; only their method is different.

Disciple: But that does not explain Lajpat Rai's idea of the illusion of all action.

Sri Aurobindo: No, it doesn't. The idea may have been in his blood or perhaps in the atmosphere of the place. In England, when I was reading Max Muller's translation of the Vedanta, I came upon the idea of Atman, the Self, and thought that this was the true thing to be realised in life. Before that I was an agnostic and even an atheist. How do you explain that? You can't say that it was in the atmosphere of the place. It was in the blood or perhaps carried from a past life. And the curious thing is that as soon as I set foot on Apollo Bunder the experience of the Self began — I did not know, of course, that it was the experience of the Self. It was a sense of calm and vastness pervading everywhere.

Then there is contact with a place which gives you an experience, and sometimes the experience is appropriate to the place. For instance, the sense of the Infinite I had at the Shankaracharya Hill in Kashmir, and at the Parvati Hills in Poona, and the reality of the Goddess in the Karnali temple near Chandod.

Disciple: I asked Herbert why the Jews are so much persecuted in Germany. He says what you said that they are a rich minority and so they are made the scapegoat. He said the same thing was done in France against the aristocracy during the revolution, and in Spain against the clergy.

Sri Aurobindo: That comparison with France and Spain cannot be made. In France the Revolution was not against the aristocracy particularly but against the whole history of the past. And in Spain it is against the past repression by the Church.

Disciple: I asked Lizelle about the conditions in Switzerland since she is Swiss. She says the country is passing through a critical time. She fears that in case of war the passage may be through Switzerland. During the last war they passed some anxious days fearing Germany would pass through Switzerland. When Belgium was made the route, they felt relieved.

Sri Aurobindo: Yes, if the dictators decide to take any course of action, it may be through Switzerland.

Disciple: She says Switzerland is divided into three parts, speaking three languages — Italian, German and French. If they attack the Italian and German speaking cantons, the French cantons would be in trouble.

Sri Aurobindo: It is said that the Czechoslovakian frontier was so strongly fortified that Germany would have found it difficult to take it.

Disciple: It is a pity they gave in without fight. But now Hitler is asking for equivalent colonies.

Sri Aurobindo: From whom? Where?

Disciple: From Belgium, Holland and Portugal.

Sri Aurobindo: Holland has no colonies in Africa. The Portuguese colonies in Africa are small and Hitler would hardly be satisfied with them. Belgian Congo is big, but England would not dare to do anything with it, for that will make Belgium furious and she may side with Germany. England could not allow that, for if Germany takes possession of Antwerp, it will be a pistol at the heart of England.

(Turning to P) Roosevelt has backed out. I thought that in his message to the Congress he had taken up the cause of the democracies, but now he says that America has nothing to do with European problems.

Disciple: It may be the financial interests that are behind this.

Disciple: What do you think of Subhas's statement?

Sri Aurobindo: He is hedging. The Hindu has given a fitting reply. Either he meant something or meant nothing by his declaration.

Disciple: The Socialists can't proceed constitutionally. In arecent meeting at Bombay, they began to shout and continued shouting.

Sri Aurobindo: Shouting is quite constitutional with them. (Laughter)
7 FEBRUARY 1939

Disciple: Bose has called his leftist Conference. I wonder what programme they are going to formulate.

Sri Aurobindo: That is what they are not going to say. The only thing they are going to do is to give an ultimatum to the British Government. After that they will break some laws or ask the Ministers to resign on the States' issue, if they have not done so by that time.

Disciple: The States' question will be an all-absorbing matter and the split in the Congress may be avoided.

Sri Aurobindo: But it is not definite what the Princes will do. They are under the thumb of the British Government. Only people like Holkar and Nabha may side with the Congress and risk losing their thrones. And there is also this threatened split in the Congress between Subhas and his socialists and Gandhi's followers.

Socialism is now a waning force everywhere — only in England, Scandinavia, France and Mexico it has some hold. English socialism is a watery affair, there is no difference in their policy from the others. And there are only a few hundred communists there. In France, the socialists have lost their chance. Now, only if they can bring about a revolution they may rise, but I don't think it is likely to be successful.

Disciple: In Russia some signs of freedom are noticeable.

Sri Aurobindo: That is because Stalin has killed all those unpleasant to him. He can now wait till some other people come up in the future whom he can kill.

Disciple: Spain seems to be finished.

Sri Aurobindo: Yes.

Disciple: But Madrid remains and General Miaja is there.

Sri Aurobindo: When Barcelona has fallen Miaja cannot do anything. Besides, what can he do without arms and food?

Disciple: Mussolini does not intend to remove the troops from Spain.

Sri Aurobindo: That is what he said the other day.

Disciple: It was Gayda who said that.

Sri Aurobindo: Gayda is the mouthpiece of Mussolini. When he does not want to say anything himself he speaks through Gayda. But Daladier could make a Spanish legion out of the Spanish refugees as a counter-blast to Mussolini's Italian legion in Spain and use it in case the French troops are not allowed to come from Morocco. But it is too bold a policy for Daladier.

Disciple: The French Chamber voted unanimously against the Italian demand for colonies.

Sri Aurobindo: That, of course; when somebody comes to take hold of a family possession, the family will unanimously refuse.

Disciple: But I wonder how Flandin supports the Fascists.

Sri Aurobindo: He will be lynched if he talks of parting with Tunisia, Corsica, etc. If it is a question of parting with some deserts in Africa, the French people may agree, as they wanted to do during the Abyssinian war, but Mussolini will say he is not a collector of deserts.

Disciple: But Italy is sure to push her claims again.

Disciple: Hitler has advised him to keep quiet now.

Sri Aurobindo: Yes, till Franco's victory is complete.

Disciple: Bonnet, it seems, wanted to come to a compromise.

Sri Aurobindo: He is not reliable. Daladier has at least some force. On one occasion he refused to listen to Bonnet and said he would not tolerate any English interference in connection with the Italian question. The French people don't know that they have to stand up to the British and speak to them bluntly. During the Czech crisis when Chamberlain told them that he would help them diplomatically as far as possible but they should not count on his military support, they should have replied that if England was attacked by Germany they should not count on them as allies. Then Chamberlain would have come down.
9 FEBRUARY 1939

Dr. R stayed up to 9:30 p.m. As soon as he left the topic of local politics was brought in.

Disciple: The Governor has invited the three parties to see if acompromise can be arrived at. He says they may have their own political views, but they must not go on killing each other.

Sri Aurobindo: He will be one of the greatest diplomats in the world if he can reconcile their interests and have a common programme.

Disciple: Subhas and his Conference don't seem to have settled on any programme. Today's paper says that Gandhiji wired to him not to stand for the presidentship. But he did not pay any heed to it. Now many delegates may vote against him.

Sri Aurobindo: The only thing he speaks of is challenging the Government and attacking the States — rather a tall order.

Disciple: Yes. Gandhiji also challenged the Government, the result was the Round Table Conference. In the end, Willingdon arrested him and refused even to see him.

Sri Aurobindo: Willingdon will now look with queer eyes at the Congress Ministers and think that all he had done has been undone.

Disciple: The Congress Working Committee has decided to give Subhas the committee of his choice. But the people he has called at Calcutta for a conference don't seem too promising.

( In the evening the names were read out to Sri Aurobindo.)

Sri Aurobindo: Who are these people? They seem to be an army of nobodies. Except Aiyangar, Aney, and one or two others these people were never heard of before.

Disciple: The other States seem to be supporting Rajkot and asking him not to yield. But I don't think that the Thakore will succeed. I don't know about Jaipur but in Rajkot the ground is well prepared.

Sri Aurobindo: If the States organise, backed by the Paramount Power and lend their support, then Rajkot may stand through and the Satyagraha may not succeed. Look at Mysore and Travancore — Mysore has only appointed a committee which may go on for three years and do nothing. Moreover it is very difficult to keep the movement non-violent. If it is kept to the middle class it may be possible, but if the masses come in then violence is inevitable. See the murder of Bazalgette in Orissa and the breaking out of violence in Travancore. Human nature is human nature. If the movement is confined to a small State like Rajkot it may succeed, but in the big States it is impossible to keep it non-violent.

Disciple: They say that in Travancore it was Sir C. P. Ramaswamy Aiyar who engineered the outbreak.

Sri Aurobindo: I don't believe it. I have seen many cases and Congress people are not noted for their truthfulness. They say what suits them. But if they propose to come out of the assemblies because of failure in Rajkot or Jaipur, it is not at all good. Such small States must be deprived of their power and be made like zamindars. One never knew before that there were so many States!

Disciple: Jaipur has again released Bajaj! (Laughter) Bajaj was a little hurt while being forcibly removed. Gandhiji called it "organised goondaism".

Sri Aurobindo: I don't understand why he calls it goondaism. If Bajaj resisted they had to use force to remove him and injury is quite possible.

Disciple: The Prajamandal has arranged to send five satyagrahis every week.

Sri Aurobindo: That would be about 260 a year — a little more than in our Ashram now. The States will have no difficulty in keeping them.

( The talk turned to Baroda's royal family.)

Disciple: Yuvaraj Pratapsingh Rao may be persuaded by his Dewan Krishnamachari to part with some of his privileges.

Sri** Aurobindo:** I saw his photograph today. He has a weak face, nothing of the grandfather in him. His father had more brilliance and dash. Pratapsingh has a soul, but not a strong one.

Jaysingh Rao was dull. Shivaji Rao was intelligent. I taught him French; he was a good student. Dhairyashil showed signs of premature development of lust. It was due to the servants of the palace. Indira was more interesting and there was something sturdy in her. She had the most of her father, Sayaji Rao, in her.

Disciple: There is a criticism of Pujalal's poetry by the Gujarati poet critic Khabardar. He says, it is not "rooted in the soil", too Sanskritised and not written for the masses. English poetry, hesays, is founded on the Anglo-Saxon language.

Sri Aurobindo: Not at all. Poets from Shakespeare and Milton to Shelley and others did not write in the Anglo-Saxon language — except William Morris, who consciously used Anglo-Saxon words. They followed Latin and Greek vocabulary. And this idea of writing for the masses is stupid. Poetry was never written for the masses. It is only a minority that read and appreciate poetry. The definition of modern poetry is what the poet himself and a few of his admirers around him understand. Shakespeare and Milton are not mass poets.

Mrs. Hemans, like Martin Tupper, wrote for the masses: "The boy stood on the burning deck, whence all but he had fled;" — that sort of thing. Tupper sold more in his life than all the best poets put together. It is curious, many of the modern poets are communists, but they don't write for the proletariat.
19 FEBRUARY 1939

Disciple: The maxim "From each according to his capacity and to each according to his need", seems to be the basis of Socialism.

Sri Aurobindo: Who is to decide the need? In the actual working of socialism there is a great divergence — some tackle only key industries like electricity and nationalise them, while others go into the minutest detail.

Disciple: Even the Communists in Russia have introduced divergence in wages to encourage the workers to do more work.

Sri Aurobindo: Yes, but that comes to the same thing — only instead of the capitalist it is the State that pays the higher wages. Communism one can understand: a group owning property in common and receiving its benefits according to need and satisfying the need of the group. That is as old as the world. But State ownership is something that creates a class like the Capitalists.

The Nazism in Germany, on the other hand, makes the national consciousness so strong that it begins to treat the individuals like the cells of the body — bound to think and act alike. No freedom is allowed to them.

Or take another example. The racial and national egos in the Balkans are so rigid that they could not protect themselves by creating a federation against Germany.
21 FEBRUARY 1939

Disciple: In the political problem of India the States present agreat obstacle — particularly to political unity.

Sri Aurobindo: It can be achieved as Germany did with her many States.

Disciple: There is a great rush for a public career nowadays, in fact there is a competition for it. But there are the low tendencies also visible. How to combat these tendencies?

Sri Aurobindo: By creating a tradition of respect for character, by throwing out dishonest men from public life. Politicians can lie but not be corrupt.

The parliamentary form of democracy is not necessarily suited to India. As it is, anybody stands as a candidate for election and either buys off votes or persuades them into giving it, or comes up by some trick. But he may not be the true representative. Besides, just anybody who comes with a majority should not be made a minister, only capable men should be given ministership — the policy may be reserved for the parliament.

Kingship like that of Aundh is best suited to India, where the king is a religious minded person, a man of character and intelligence, who looks to the interest of all his subjects. But for that, the kings must be taught and prepared through hard training. Now, they learn only how to play cricket and drink, but in ancient times, a kings training was very hard.
24 FEBRUARY 1939

Disciple: What is the part which the mind plays in the cure of a disease?

Sri Aurobindo: The mental factor is much more effective than is generally known or admitted. There are cases where the doctors have found that the mental factor has saved the patient by pulling him or her out from a critical condition; for example, mothers wanting to see their children saved, being pulled out of critical conditions.

Disciple: Which method of treatment is correct — the Chinese method of Acupuncture, Homeopathy, Ayurveda, or Allopathy?

Sri Aurobindo: Nature allows you to follow certain lines and on each she shows you what is possible. For example, they thought of electricity as wave motion and they found there was something that corresponded to that view. Now they think of it as made up of particles, and they find that it corresponds to that also.

Disciple: That is the realm of matter, but in life — for example, in the curing of a disease.

Sri Aurobindo: Mental factors determine the physical conditions much more than doctors would be prepared to grant. Coué's method succeeds and it cannot be considered useless, though it uses no medicine.

Disciple: Some disciples here believe that there is a collective Karma for which either the group, the society or the nation has to bear the consequences like the individual.

Sri Aurobindo: The collective being is non-evolutionary. It is hard to believe in the reincarnations of races.

Disciple: Somebody seems to have said that the Romans are born as Americans.

Sri Aurobindo: Very queer Romans! You may say in some sense that the English are the ancient Carthaginians. Or one may even hazard that the French are Greeks reborn. But it wont carry us very far. You can't take for granted that one individual is always born in the same race or nation in which he is born now. So how can the nation-soul or race-soul reincarnate?

Disciple: Have the nations a soul?

Sri Aurobindo: You can speak of it as a collective or national being or entity. But it is not in evolution. It is not subject to the law of Karma.

Disciple: Can it be said that the law governing it is suprarational?

Sri Aurobindo: Yes. Each collective being is a projection of the Cosmic Spirit for a particular purpose. You can speak of it as a particular Shakti.

Disciple: How does the collective being or Shakti work?

Sri Aurobindo: It identifies itself with a particular form — here of a group of individuals. There is a mutual action: it acts on the individual and the individual acts on it by manifesting it.

Disciple: Suppose the collective entity is dissolved from life?

Sri Aurobindo: When the physical form of the collectivity is dissolved here the collective being withdraws into the origin.

Disciple: Can a collective being, after such a dissolution, take another group for manifesting itself in it?

Sri Aurobindo: We have as yet no proof of it.
25 FEBRUARY 1939

Disciple: There is a report about the students of the Annamalai University picketing and some of them are fasting.

Sri Aurobindo: Satyagraha is something to be applied in extreme cases, but Gandhi has almost made a law of it and so there are so many wrong applications of it, for everybody takes it up.

Disciple: Here in this case the fundamental relations are contradicted, e.g. the relation between teachers and students. It is not, for instance, the same as between workers and capitalists.

Sri Aurobindo: Even among workers, it makes a great difference if they are educated. For instance, in Europe, when they resort to stay in strike, the workers do not damage the machinery and they even work the important parts to keep it in order. While in India, where the labour is uneducated, you can't have it like that. They destroy the machinery and then are thrown out of employment. In the Savanne Mills they burnt the machinery and then were thrown out of employment. Similar was the case in the Madras Match Factory.

If you do not have a Bill like the Bombay Trade Disputes Bill, the industries will go to pot.
12 MARCH 1939

Disciple: Did you notice Jawaharlal's article in The Hindu? He can't forget Subhas not acknowledging his report from Europe and also his international politics.

Sri Aurobindo: That again shows Nehru is an idealist. If he has the clarity of mind to see that Socialism can come in India only after independence is won, it should be equally clear to him that India can do something in international politics only after she is free.

Disciple: The Congress wants to do something in the international field.

Sri Aurobindo: It is a hazy idea. All you have been able to do for China is to send an ambulance unit. It is not like England that can send money to stabilise the currency in China.

Disciple: I believe it is his visit to Europe in the League against Imperialism that gives him the impression that he would be able to do something in international politics.

Sri Aurobindo: It is a wrong impression. It was, for instance, wrongly supposed that the Governor of Pondicherry was recalled because Nehru represented the case to the Secretary of Colonies.

Disciple: Perhaps the Secretary might have said he would move in the matter.

Sri Aurobindo: He might have been only polite. They are always polite, but that does not mean anything. He might say, "I will look into the matter." Or, "Thank you for bringing the matter to my notice."

Disciple: Mahatmaji has secured a big triumph.

Sri Aurobindo: If some understanding is arrived at between the Princes and the Congress it would be very good.

Disciple: I don't know if Subhas will deliver his ultimatum.

Sri Aurobindo: If you have a revolutionary programme and a nation ready to kill or die, then you may indulge in ultimatums. India is not ready like Ireland was. They are prepared to get beaten, or to go to jail at the most. So you have to see what can be done. When India is really free it will think many times before meddling in international problems before it is on its own feet.

Disciple: M. N. Roy got only 38 votes!

Sri Aurobindo: He might say: Hitler began with even less! But it does not always happen so. Some people remain where they are. Oswald Mosley is where he was ten years back, and poor Brailsford writes every week what everybody should do, but nobody seems to do what he says!

Subhas and his group are living even now in the mentality of 1906 and 1907; they don't know that conditions have changed. It is not always by fighting that you get what you want. With all his idealism Gandhi knows how far the people can go and in spite of his inner voice, he knows how far to go himself.
6 MAY 1939

Arjava died on 5th May, at Bangalore. He was being treated by Dr. Brinitzer. Postmortem examination revealed pericardiatis, six ounces of water in the right side of the heart.

Disciple: Our Dr. X sticks to his rheumatism theory. The French doctor started with typhoid, but it was negatived by blood examination, and then suggested tuberculosis. Dr. Brinitzer in the beginning said that it was septisemia.

Disciple: So, even after the postmortem nobody was wiser. How is this possible that even after the postmortem they don't accept the diagnosis?

Sri Aurobindo: You can see that Dr. X is not ready to admit anything other than what he believes. He takes into consideration only those facts that support his views, and puts all other facts away. So nothing else can come in.

Disciple: What is the way out?

Sri Aurobindo: Intuition is the only way. But even there mental intuition may be right, but not always. Mind deals with the possibilities and some may come true. Again, true intuition has to be distinguished from the mental imitation of the same, or from mere suggestion or a strong impression.

Disciple: How can one save oneself from error?

Sri Aurobindo: There is no outer rule; you have to get the psychic tact which throws out the error. For example, the Mother used to feel about the soundness of houses and our engineer used to find out afterwards that her feeling was true, though she does not know architecture or engineering. Another necessity is that one must be sincere about finding the truth by intuition. That is to say, one must not jump at the first idea and run away with it. The mind must be absolutely impartial and also one must be patient and one must wait. One must also test his intuitions.
16 MAY 1939

A letter received on 29th April from P, a disciple, written to T, a co-disciple here, spoke of his experience at Tiruvannamalai. He mentioned in his letter that the resistance in his physical being was broken by the spiritual experience he had there.

Disciple: What do you think of his saying that the resistance in the physical is gone?

Sri Aurobindo: I have heard people saying that the body of the Maharshi is shaking. How could he have done for someone else what he did not do, or did not care to do, for himself?

Disciple: But P describes his experience in all details: the triangle of Fire, the Sun, the Maharshi, light pouring into himself, stillness of the body, a Himalayan silence and peace, and, as a result, the breaking of the resistance in the physical.

Sri Aurobindo: He had always the habit of making mental constructions and living in them. So, his valuation of the experience is not right.

Disciple: Why did he commit this mistake in the valuation?

Sri Aurobindo: He had a very powerful ego, which he never tried to get rid of when he was here, he always wanted to start an Ashram. Whenever you have this kind of ego it always interferes with the understanding and does not allow correct valuation. With every experience he gets, his ego swells up and uses the experience to strengthen itself.

Disciple: How to get rid of the ego?

Sri Aurobindo: It is not easy to get rid of it, but one has to keep on trying, then one may not commit blunders.

Disciple: He speaks of the Himalayan silence and peace hegot.

Sri Aurobindo: Do you think he got it there for the first time? He got hundreds of experiences here.
MAY 1939

The subject of a talk between 20th and 27th was Trikal Drishti — vision (knowledge) of the Past, Present, and Future — and the Supramental Time-Vision. Why he had not known about his accident was also one of the questions.

Sri Aurobindo: I have never said that I am in full possession of the Supramental. People have wrong ideas about these things. One must have a clear intelligence and know the logical consequences of the premisses.

Christ, in spite of his miracles, could not cure anyone in one district. He said: "I can't because they have no faith." People forget that there are conditions to be fulfilled. It is a question of the Divine Consciousness working in and through inferior principles, like mind and vital and body, and there are conditions to be fulfilled for the working.

Disciple: They say that God, being Omnipotent, should be able to do anything however impossible.

Sri Aurobindo: No. Omnipotence does not make God act as our mind wants or expects. Omnipotence does not work in one way; it works in many ways.
***
JANUARY 1939 NOVEMBER-DECEMBER, 1939
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