object:2.14 - On Movements
book class:Evening Talks With Sri Aurobindo
author class:A B Purani
subject class:Integral Yoga
class:chapter
ON MOVEMENTS
ON MOVEMENTS
30 APRIL 1923
The Arunachal Mission of Bengal wrote a letter to Sri Aurobindo. There is going to be a world-peace organ of the Mission. The founder has been rendering spiritual help to all the movements of peace under its inspiration. Somebody is working in Rome on behalf of the Mission.
Disciple: There are according to newspaper reports fourteen Avatars in Bengal!
Sri Aurobindo: Rhad suggested a committee of all the Avatars. It is a nice idea, no doubt, but it may not turn out to be peaceful! (Laughter)
Disciple: He wanted to convert the Idée Nouvelle activities into something like an Indian academy.
Disciple: He also wanted to bring in Bahaism. His idea was something like four Lloyd Georges working together!
Disciple: Some say that the world war was brought about by Dayanand Thakur.
Sri Aurobindo: Yes, for world-peace! (Laughter)
5 APRIL 1924
A letter from an American lady who is a preacher of Bahaism, was read out.
Sri Aurobindo: Do you know about the man who started Bahaism?
Disciple: I do not know, but it was Baha Ullah perhaps who started it.
Sri Aurobindo: It seems he was an ignorant man in the beginning, but he had a vital being which received the Light — not perhaps the very Highest but a mental Light. And it is with that force that he created Bahaism. He used to see the Light descend on him when he was in meditation.
He had also, in addition, the power of the word which is regarded as the sign of a prophet. The words may not be something extraordinary in themselves, but they carry a certain power in them. He had also a remarkable power of telepathy which he used when he was imprisoned and he used to direct his disciples from the prison.
He had a great power of malediction, a power of cursing, and many of his curses came true. He caused certain letters to be written to the ruling monarchs of the time from his prison, and it is said that the manner in which each one received his message was reported to him. He cursed the Sultan of Turkey saying that Turkey would be ruined and his throne would be destroyed. Emperor Napoleon III also did not receive the message well and he was also cursed. The Shah of Persia caused the messenger to be killed. I don't know what Baha Ullah said with regard to him.
Some of his prophecies also have come true.
Disciple: Is it possible that one man's curse should prove true for a nation?
Sri Aurobindo: There is no reason why it should not. Do you think that one can't curse anybody? Especially, if there is a strong support of a vital being, it would be effective.
Disciple: In that case the whole nation may be destroyed.
Sri Aurobindo: It may be destroyed, if that is destined. He cursed in the same way as Mahomed did.
Disciple: The American lady says that Bahaism has taken a deep root in America.
Sri Aurobindo: Yes, it is true and there are some followers in France also.
Disciple: All sorts of things seem to go on well in the U.S.A.There is Vedanta, Theosophy, Bahaism and what not.
Sri Aurobindo: Anything goes well in America, if only you know how to do it.
Disciple: Swami X seems to have spoiled the chance of Vedanta. Otherwise, it would be going on well.
Sri Aurobindo: Vedanta is too abstract for the ordinary mind. It was the personality of Vivekananda that gave the drive.
But this Bahaism is just what suits the common mind. There are now two sects run by Baha Ullahs two sons. Abdul Baha is the younger one. He has some vital force from his father and he used to see some kind of Light in meditation and so he began to think of himself as the incarnation of the Light on earth, and whoever was received in the fold was supposed to be influenced by it. Bahaism has included certain mental concepts also, e.g., toleration, universal brotherhood, equality of man and woman, etc. The other day he included Buddhism also, though he seems to know nothing about it. He has about eleven million followers, of which two million are in Europe.
If the Mahomedans get a religion of that sort it is much better than what they are having now.
Disciple: You said the other day that Tailanga Swami's remaining in water of the Ganges for several days does not constitute perfection of the physical. What is the notion of perfection implied in the physical being's getting supramentalised?
Sri Aurobindo ( waving his hands in the air) : I have no idea. ( Laughter)
It is yet to be done. All I can say is that it would be something which would have in it the two fundamental laws of the Supermind: Truth and Harmony.
Disciple: Would the Ashta Siddhis — the eight supernatural powers, be attained by one who attains the Supramentalisation of the physical?
Sri Aurobindo: You mean his hands and feet etc. can be detached miraculously?
Disciple: Invulnerability, for instance.
Sri Aurobindo: I don't know; wait and see. The best thing is when you have got the Siddhi to get someone to beat you to find out whether you have become invulnerable or not. (Laughter)
A question regarding survival after death and projection of the being to another place came in.
Disciple: It seems that Sister Nivedita used to feel the presence of Vivekananda in the place where she lived.
Sri Aurobindo: That may be the presence of the disembodied person.
Disciple: There is an idea that Swami X could appear simultaneously at three places.
Sri Aurobindo: Ithink it requires proof.
Disciple: Why, our friend A saw B in Calcutta and he would not believe me when I told him he was not there — a fact which I knew to be true.
Disciple: One can easily prove that you were present at Bhavanipore, Chittagong and Pondicherry simultaneously!
Sri Aurobindo: You see, you have in this example the explanation of how the Swami appeared at three places! (Laughter)
Disciple: It may be only the psychic presence.
Sri Aurobindo: That is quite another thing; it is possible, even thought-formation and psycho-vital formation are possible.
Disciple: Vivekananda came to Shashi Maharaj after leaving his body and told him "Shashi! I have spat out my body."
Sri Aurobindo: That is quite possible and even common — to make the presence of the disembodied spirit felt. It occurs in many cases, especially in the days immediately after death. The spirit comes in dreams and visions also. Usually, in ordinary cases it is for a short time, but in certain cases it may be much longer.
Disciple: Ramakrishna used to appear at many places. Hriday, his nephew, asked him to be present at the time of ārati — waving of lights — at the Durgā Pūjā which he did in his village far from Calcutta. He invariably saw him at the time and Ramakrishna used to go into a trance at Calcutta where he lived.
Sri Aurobindo: That phenomenon is not so unusual. It is the conscious use on both the sides of a power which is unconsciously possessed by most men — the power to project oneself. In this case the power to project even the vital being seems to be active, which is unusual. There was the capacity to receive on one side and conscious effort on the other.
Disciple: I had a talk with a North Indian disciple who seems to think that a yogi who has attained Knowledge must know everything.
Sri Aurobindo: Yes, your friend from Palanpur who saw me today wants me to answer all his puzzles and questions. You can tell him that one can know a thing best by identity; so that if he becomes one with the ass he can know everything about it! You have in yoga to know the One by knowing which everything would be known. What is the use of knowing all the details? Even God does not know everything directly; he manages the affair through his deputies.
Disciple: People have an attraction for miracles and Siddhis. Ramakrishna used to relate a story about these Siddhis. A man had attained prākāmya — the power to obtain whatever he wished. One day he just got the fear: "Suppose a tiger comes!" And the tiger actually came and ate him up! (Laughter)
Disciple: Why did he not suppose that after coming the tiger became a lamb?
Disciple: There was no time to suppose anything further. (Laughter)
6 MARCH 1926
There was a reference to a 'divine marriage' that was to be celebrated at Chandernagore. A letter and a photograph were sent for Sri Aurobindo's approval.
Sri Aurobindo: I refuse to have anything to do with the matter. It is the girl who must choose her husband, and not I.
I can only add that marriages, generally, are not divine; and when they are divine no arrangements are necessary.
Disciple: Some people are trying to drag these things into the Supermind; but they must themselves get into the Supermind before they can drag others into it.
Sri Aurobindo: If they were in the Supramental, then the question would not arise, as they would never try to drag anyone into it.
Disciple: Nowadays the Chittagong people have left off writing letters.
Disciple: Except K who sent an unpaid letter which I refused to accept without asking you.
Sri Aurobindo: You did well. We cannot afford to pay two annas to have the pleasure of reading K's letter. Money is too precious nowadays.
(After some time) At times I wonder why at all I thought of bringing down the Supermind into this mass of idiots!
Disciple: Do you think it was an evil day?
Sri Aurobindo: No; but wherever you may go, whatever you may do, the idiots will be there. You see, when there is a big dinner-party some are invited and they come, others are not invited and yet they come, and others force themselves into the party! (Laughter)
I am really surprised why these people come to me. If they went to X they could easily find sanction for the 'divine marriage' or they could go to Y who is now doing kāma!
Disciple: Y did dharma and artha, now they are doing kāma,and finally there will be mokṣa!
Disciple: There is an article in the Vivekananda Number where this theory of dharma, artha, kāma and mokṣa is expounded: it is all in the agnimoyi — fiery — language. I don't know if they believe that people would accept these ideas.
Sri Aurobindo: Generally, people who have no brains would be carried away by the high-sounding 'fiery' language; they do not want thought. Such language would always carry away empty-headed fools. Some people have a knack of using high-sounding words; once I listened to Surendra Nath Banerji for half an hour and I found no thought there — it was all words.
Disciple: But they, the words, carry the audience all right!
Sri Aurobindo: Oh yes, of course; what people require is some kind of vital emotion — they do not require thought. People get tired of listening to thoughts.
Disciple: Is there no thought in oratory? Is it only an art?
Sri Aurobindo: Not so; but even if there is thought you have to dilute it very much and throw it into the emotional vital.
Disciple: But they say that Surendra Nath was Burke and Sheridan combined in his oratorical powers.
Sri Aurobindo: He may be like Sheridan, Ido not know. Sheridan was a great orator, he never had to think for making a speech. But he was not like Burke. Burke is thought, every sentence of his is weighed with thought. Though he was a great orator he did not produce as much effect on others.
12 MARCH 1926
Reference was made to Bhawanipore centre from where the sadhaks had not been writing anything for some time.
Disciple: X was never in the habit of writing even before. His theory was that everything will happen at the proper time without any effort. Just as sleep comes and you can't stop it, so also Siddhi of Yoga comes on and you can't stop it.
Sri Aurobindo: It is not so simple as that. Yoga does not bring about sleep, I hope.
Disciple: Probably what he means is that sleep cannot be controlled; so also Sadhana.
Sri Aurobindo: But in sleep there is no question of 'getting' something. It is a question of stopping something. Besides sleep comes to you naturally, while Yoga does not. It may seem sometimes that the first awakening comes without any effort on your part, but afterwards it is all a slow working out.
Disciple: Perhaps they rely upon Ramakrishna's saying that if you light a single matchstick in a dark room everything in it is lighted up.
Sri Aurobindo: And then what happens next?
Disciple: Nothing. Everything is lighted up and the darkness vanishes.
Sri Aurobindo: No, the matchstick goes out.
Disciple: You take the simile too literally.
Sri Aurobindo: The simile itself is not correct. First of all the matchstick does not get lighted of itself; you have to light it. So it does not agree with X's idea that Yoga would be done by itself. Secondly, the matchstick lights up a small area and there are plenty of dark corners in the room. Thirdly, the match goes out very soon.
Disciple: So the simile fells to the ground. They also used to say that if knowledge comes then all actions are completely destroyed.
Sri Aurobindo: You have not to take these utterances literally. They only indicate certain spiritual experiences. I should think X was quite an extraordinary man; there is no doubt about it.
Disciple: He had a great admiration for Soham Swami who used to come to Bhawanipore once in a year. Perhaps if he were alive X would not have come to this Yoga.
Sri Aurobindo: Who was the Swami?
Disciple: He was a Vedantic yogi.
Sri Aurobindo: But Vedanta does not say that you can do Yoga in a wink, that one day you get up and find everything is done.
Disciple: If the Yoga could be done in that way it would be very good.
Sri Aurobindo: Yes, what is the good of doing Sadhana and working long years after it? It is in Bhakti Yoga that everything is done by Name and Bhava. Whether the path is easy or not depends on what Yoga you are doing. In the ordinary Bhakti Yoga you want a certain condition of emotional excitement and intensity. If you can get that you have done what you wanted.
Disciple: Do you think that such an emotional intensity can be kept up permanently?
Sri Aurobindo: That is another matter.
Disciple: If you can't keep it, that means you are unable to bear it.
Sri Aurobindo: Then, also, you have viraha-bhāva — the emotion of separation, which can be a state of intensity.
Disciple: But Chaitanya's direct disciples like Haridas did quite long Sadhana.
Sri Aurobindo: Oh yes, of course. I am not speaking of men who do the genuine Bhakti Yoga, they have to do a lot of things systematically and gradually.
Disciple: There are very cheap yogis, some who used to give brahma darśana — vision of Brahman — for five rupees. Some press the eyeballs and make people see the "light"!
Sri Aurobindo: The Gaekwad also used to say the same thing. He used to say: "People say that Brahman is Light but that I see when I press my eyes. What is the difference between that and the Brahman?" I did not know anything about Yoga at that time and so I used to say: "It is not quite the same light."
Disciple: There is a physiological explanation.
Sri Aurobindo: Whatever the physiological explanation may be, it is certain that when the eyes are pressed or even without being pressed, if the mind is concentrated on the centre of the psychic vision you see a light, a round globe of light which goes on increasing. That is not due to anything physical. It is the light from one of the inner centres, especially the ājñā cakra — the centre of will — and you can make it very bright and big by connecting it with the brahma-randhra, — the centre on the top of the head.
Disciple: Is every sense organ connected, like the eye, with an inner centre?
Sri Aurobindo: Yes. After all, the distinctions we make between mental, vital and physical are not quite true: they are not separate parts — they are all one. And I think the Vedic Rishis found out a great truth when they spoke of the Sun in the physical as one with the highest Sun. After all, the physical is as much a manifestation of the Higher Force as anything else and I do not understand why we should not expect in it similar powers.
I had myself a remarkable experience of the psychic sight. I was at Baroda, my psychic sight was not fully developed and I was trying to develop it by dwelling upon the after-image and also by attending to the interval between wakefulness and sleep. Then I saw this round circle of light and when I began prāṇāyāma it became very much intensified.
Disciple: The Hatha Yogins also can awaken these cakras.
Sri Aurobindo: What the Hatha Yogi can achieve is to get the perfect control of the vital forces working in the body and also control over the physical functions. This also produces some indirect influence in the mind. But I do not think that by Hatha Yoga pure and simple, you can realise God.
Disciple: I know a Hatha Yogi who has done all the kriyās — movements and postures — and he said that even though he knew everything of Hatha Yoga he had not seen God. He even said to me: "I don't believe there is any God because I could not succeed in seeing him even after so much trouble."
Sri Aurobindo: That is because he stopped short at Hatha Yoga; he should have gone further.
Disciple: What is the use of prolonging the life of the body?
Sri Aurobindo: What is the harm in it?
Disciple: But it is only trying for a long lease of life. What use is there in it? Vivekananda used to say that even trees have long life.
Sri Aurobindo: Well, that is not the answer. It is an epigram. I do not know why one should not recognise achievement wherever it is found.
Disciple: But what is the idea behind Hatha Yoga?
Sri Aurobindo: Why should we not value achievement for its own sake? Even prolonging life everybody cannot do.
6 MAY 1926
Tirupati came today in spite of notice to the contrary. He was not allowed to enter any of the Ashram houses.
In the evening Sri Aurobindo said: "He had no force this time; his movements were merely mechanical. The Mother has cut off inner contact since April and after that the forces seem to have left him."
The following letter was sent to him:
Your aspiration to be my manifestation and all the rest of the delusions to which you have surrendered yourself are not Yoga or Sadhana. They are an illusion of your vital being and your brain. We tried to cure you and for a few days while you were obeying my instructions you were on the point of being cured. But you have called back your illness and made it worse than before. You seem to be no longer capable even of understanding what I write to you; you read your own delusions into my letters. I can do nothing more for you.
All that I can tell you is to go back to Vizianagaram and allow yourself to be taken care of there. I can make no arrangements for you anywhere. I can give only a last advice. Throw away the foolish arrogance and vanity that have been the cause of your illness; consent to become like an ordinary man living in the normal physical mind.
Now that is your only means of being saved from your illness.
Sri Aurobindo
There was a letter from Y.
Sri Aurobindo: Her experience indicates the nature of the obstruction in her Sadhana. She has the ordinary feminine love and attachment and also a conventional mind. She is also attached to her children. She has to get rid of it if she wants to get along in Sadhana.
She had some aspiration in the mind and she has got some capacity there; but she was careful to keep her vital being untouched, and so she can't get on further unless she asks for the Truth there also.
Another letter was from A.
Sri Aurobindo: It is no use her feeling the ascetic tendency. She must combine life and yoga. There is growth by meditation and also by life. She ought to try to be unattached and must bring the Higher Consciousness to bear upon life. She must do actions from that Consciousness.
As to external disturbance, tell her not to depend too much on outside circumstances for her Sadhana. In fact, one never gets the ideal conditions. The sadhak must depend upon his inner force and continue his Sadhana even when there is noise. I do not see why one should not be able to meditate when the Hindu-Muslim riot is going on.
Meditation is one half of the development, while being able to keep the attitude all the time is the other part. When one has got the right poise he can meditate under any condition.
Disciple: Even when music is going on by the side?
Sri Aurobindo (humorously) : This information is for those who have to suffer the noise — not for those who make it. (Laughter)
( The disciple who asked the question was learning instrumental music.)
***
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