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object:2.10 - On Vedic Interpretation
book class:Evening Talks With Sri Aurobindo
author class:A B Purani
subject class:Integral Yoga
class:chapter


ON VEDIC INTERPRETATION
ON VEDIC INTERPRETATION
1923

Sri Aurobindo: The third and the fourth Mandalas contain many subtle suggestions about the symbolism of the Veda. The hymns of Dirghatamas in the first Mandala are clearly mystic. The experience of the Rishis is common in general principles but it varies in detail. These details are hard to fix because you do not find any parallel to them in other hymns. And so, sometimes you become helpless. The general idea of the functions of Agni is the same. He is kavi-kratu. — "one with a seer-will" or "one possessed of the seer-will". You have also to see the connection of Agni with Satya, the Truth. The good, bhadram, which Agni does is the increase in Truth. In the Brahmanas there are many hints that suggest the symbolism in the Veda. Yama, probably, is the Truth working on the physical aspect of the universe. The words dhī, ṛtam, satyam, bṛhat are among the important words for Vedic interpretation. Trīṇi rocanā when applied to svar refers to the three divisions of i. When it refers to three heavens, it means the heavens of the mental, vital and physical fulfilment. When each of these is fulfilled it is called 'heaven' and its fulfilment is by the highest Truth. Agni's own home — svaṁ damam — is the highest Truth. In V. 12 the Rishi does not want the mixture of Truth and falsehood but wants only the Truth. Agni's own home is full of joy: Ananda is the pratiṣṭhā — basis of the Divine Will.

In Mandala 1.95.1 there is mention of the 'child' that is One — that child is Agni. He is called "the son of two mothers" of different colours — of Day and Night, i.e., of Knowledge and Ignorance. Svarthe means "by the right path". Anyānyā "to each other" — alternately; hari, "hill of coloured light"; svadhāvān "having the law of its own being"; śukra, "white, shining white"; suvarcas, "full of bright light"; daśa yuvatayaḥ (1.95.2) "Ten young women bear the child —garbha — by Twashtri."
8 JULY 1924

Sri Aurobindo: This idea of poverty was never the Hindu ideal, not even for the Brahmin. Gandhi has advised the non-co-operators not to bequeath their property to their sons. The idea is: why should you burden your son with a sinful load? This is an absurd ideal, at least it was never the Hindu ideal. He seems to imagine that everyone in India after forty-five used to leave his property and go away to the forest.

Disciple: But then what should the no-changer do with his property if he does not give it to his son?

Disciple: Give it to the Government.

Sri Aurobindo: Yes, if there is nobody to inherit, then it must go to the Government.

Disciple: But the Government is already sufficiently Satanic and the sin of more property may make it more Satanic.

Sri Aurobindo: It is a Christian ideal to be poor.

Disciple: In the hymns recited as flower-offerings — Puṣpāñjali, they pray Svasti svārājyam, bhojyam, sāmrājyam, pārameṣṭhyam — for self-rule, and all rule of the Divine, and all enjoyment.

Sri Aurobindo: Why! you have to face property if it comes. There never was any preaching of poverty. Of course, there was Sannyasa having the ideal of 'no-property'. But that is quite a different thing from remaining poor.

What the Indian ideal is you read in the Ramayana where the civic life is described. There was no man who was poor in Dasharatha's kingdom, none who had no garden. That is the Indian ideal and even in the Upanishads we see that the Brahmins had got wealth.

( Sri Aurobindo recounted the story of Yajnavalkya who said he would bow down to the highest among the knowers of Brahman. He said: "I only want to take the cows")

Not to be attached to property was the idea, but it is quite a different thing from remaining poor.

Disciple: Did Buddhism preach poverty?

Sri Aurobindo: There was a division: the monks and the householders. The monks owned no property and for them there was the communal property. For the householders poverty was not regarded as an ideal. Our people never preached poverty.

Disciple: Even in the Taittiriya and other Upanishads we have annavān annādo, mahān kirtyā, paśubhiḥ — "The one who is possessed of Matter (of food) and gives Matter (food), great be his glory, with the wealth of cattle." Always the insistence is on earthly greatness and prosperity.
4 JUNE 1926

Disciple: Some time back you said that the symbolism of the Vedas was to some extent conventional; for example, the cow as typifying "light of the Truth". The same may be said of Buddhist symbolism and that of ancient Egypt.

Is there not a symbolism which could be said to be universal, i.e., having a reality independent of the mental significance of words and images?

Sri Aurobindo: Have you any idea of such a symbolism?

Disciple: If at all such a symbolism exists it ought to be based on true correspondence between the planes of consciousness, and the symbols themselves must be universal. The numbers are said to form such a symbolism; for, though mental, they have correspondence on each plane of being. For example, 2 corresponds to polarity — male and female, positive and negative, attraction and repulsion, good and evil, etc.; 4 corresponds to will and creative action; 7 is said to represent individual consciousness contacting the universe, unfolding its powers; 8 is related to Karma; 9 is related to life and cyclic evolution.

Has this idea of symbolism of numbers any true foundation? Or, in other words, do there exist realities which are true symbols? Numbers seem to have special properties seemingly self-existent, absolute and changeless, ruling the whole manifestation. Perhaps it is this that made Pythagoras and many other mystics see in numbers the highest abstract images of the laws of being?

Sri Aurobindo: What is your idea of the difference between the symbol and reality?

Disciple: A symbol is a significant form of a plane of being which presents to the human mind a reality belonging to another plane, e.g., the flag of a nation.

Sri Aurobindo: In a sense everything here, on this earth-plane, is symbolic of something that is beyond the physical plane. Our bodies, the vital being, the mental being are all symbols — there are a whole range of symbols.

There are authentic symbols like the Vedic 'cow' which means Light and the quadruped of that name. It was something precious to the Aryan people and it was taken away by the robbers. The Rishis gave life to this symbol; form was given by their mind, and it became an experience.

There are people who say cow should not mean Light. But what can "herds of the Sun" mean? It can only mean "Rays of solar light". There are certain life-symbols: e.g., 'Mountain' stands for ascent, going high up. 'Bridge' or 'crossing of rivers' is also a symbol from life-surroundings.

Then there are certain symbols that have an inherent appositeness of their own; for instance, Akasha stands for the Eternal Brahman. In any culture, 'Sky' always indicates the Infinite. 'Sun' stands for the Supramental Light — it is the Sun of knowledge.

Then there are mental symbols; once fixed they become active on their own plane. OM, numbers, alphabets, geometrical figures have their own interpretations, e.g., the square always indicates to me the Supermind; it is a perfect shape.

Disciple: How did you know that the square is the symbol of the Supermind?

Sri Aurobindo: It might have been already found on the mental plane by somebody or might have come into my mind by some force. I did not pursue its meaning; it indicated to me the Supermind and I was satisfied.

A triangle on its base indicates the world formed by the three lower powers. A triangle placed on its apex indicates the three higher planes of being. When these two triangles are superimposed upon each other then a new symbol is found. The ancients indulged in such speculations.

It is also possible that the same reality may seek expression through different symbols, and if you go behind you find it is the same thing which is Infinite, and unlimited by the symbol.

Disciple: What do you think of the Tantric sounds Hring, Kling, etc.?

Sri Aurobindo: They are not mere sounds, there must be some force behind them. The same is true about Mantra Siddhi. Three states are represented by OM and they can act differently in different men.

Disciple: The numbers being universal, why can't they be universal symbols?

Sri Aurobindo: They are absolute to the human mind only; they are essential for our way of perceiving. There may be another plane of consciousness where they may not be so absolute, and where 1 may be at the same time 2.

Numbers are the way of perceiving certain unalterable facts on the physical plane. It means that the mind can cut up the Infinite, take one and one and one and then say about each: "This is one." Physically, there are certain unalterable laws, e.g., going through the door is not possible without opening it, but the possibility may exist elsewhere.

Disciple: In a new geometry there are different postulates and axioms — not the same that we find in ordinary geometry.

Disciple: Nowadays all can be included in geometry. There exist imaginary numbers; e.g., the square root of minus 1. It is an imaginary number which the mind cannot conceive and represent in some substance, but yet it indicates some reality.

Disciple: Are they not contradictory?

Disciple: Not at all; they are well calculated and very logical.

Sri Aurobindo: What is minus 1? It is a number which goes beyond our gamut like sound waves which we can't hear yet exist all the same. Our range deals with the positive numbers while the negative ones are contrary to it. It does not mean they don't exist. They can even make themselves known to the mind.

(To a disciple) Do you feel that you are one being? And yet are you quite sure that there is no other personality in you? So you feel you are one body but at the same time multiple personalities are there in you. There are positive personalities in you, but there may be negative personalities also! You have then a negative number! There is an interpenetration of one by another and a sort of fluidity which makes this possible. But if it were so on the physical plane then one could not deal with physical realities.
***
ON SADHANA ON EDUCATION
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