object:2.03 - On Medicine
book class:Evening Talks With Sri Aurobindo
author class:A B Purani
subject class:Integral Yoga
class:chapter
ON MEDICINE
ON MEDICINE
11 NOVEMBER 1923
A telegram from a mentally deranged sadhak became the topic of this evening. The sadhak in question wanted to die. The suggestion of death, it was thought, was due to some hereditary poison in the blood. These kinds of poisons often attack the brain.
Sri Aurobindo: It is these people who also get a sense of sin and the tendency to repent and humble themselves before others. Also they have very big ideas about themselves. They think they are very important in the universal scheme.
(After a pause) This Yoga, to be done well, requires perfect balance. Therefore, those who have merely a general call for Yoga should not go in for this Yoga, because it opens a possibility for the Higher Consciousness to work as well as a possibility for the powers of the vital world to come and take possession. If a man has not got the perfect balance, it becomes easier for these powers to take possession of him. Sometimes the man who has no faith in things invisible is much better off than the man who has faith in them or the man who has a tendency towards occultism. He is generally free — comparatively free — from attacks from the subtle planes because he does not accept them and so is not open to them. While the man who believes in them gives them a chance. In this Yoga you must have a sane mind.
Disciple: The general idea is that unless one has got a screw loose in his brain one would not come for Yoga. (Laughter)
Sri Aurobindo: How do you mean? If a screw is loose then the machine is not doing its work at all!
Disciple: The idea seems to be: the more loose screws the better chance for Yoga. (Laughter)
Sri Aurobindo: You mean myself? (Laughter)
Disciple: I did not mean that. But does it mean that a sane man is more fit for Yoga?
Sri Aurobindo: A perfect Yoga requires perfect balance.
Disciple: I am afraid, sane men generally are matter-of-fact.
Sri Aurobindo: Not necessarily. What do you mean by sane?
Disciple: Sane does not mean dull.
Sri Aurobindo: Of course not; when I speak of want of balance in these people, I do not mean they are insane. It only means that their development is not proportionate, it is lopsided or there is a twist somewhere in their nature which prevents the harmonious development of all the parts.
( An interval of silence)
That was the thing that saved me all through, I mean the perfect balance. First of all I believed that nothing was impossible, and at the same time I could question everything. If I had believed in everything that came I would have been like Bijoy Krishna Goswami.
Disciple: What is 'perfect balance'?
Sri Aurobindo: A perfect Yogi can have strong imagination and equally strong reason. Imagination can believe in everything while reason works out the logical steps. Even in the case of scientists you find they have a very strong imagination.
Disciple: It is not exactly imagination perhaps?
Sri Aurobindo: Imagination is the power of conceiving things beyond the ordinary experience of life.
Disciple: Does it correspond to Truth? or is there a higher faculty of which imagination is the representative in the mind?
Sri Aurobindo: It ultimately becomes inspiration, when it ascends higher. The purer it becomes the nearer it gets to Truth. For instance, in the case of poets, generally it is the inspired imagination that works. What you meant to say about the scientist was perhaps intuition.
(After a pause) The capital period of my intellectual development was when I could see clearly that what the intellect said might be correct and not correct, that what the intellect justified was true and its opposite also was true. I never admitted a truth in the mind without simultaneously keeping it open to the contrary of it.
You see, Mind means infinite possibility. Reason or intelligence chooses one to the exclusion of all the other possibilities. And it is reason which gives value and selects. What it selects is like a law of science; you accept it because it explains most of the phenomena. In the mind we accept one possibility and suppress the others and so we see the ground for the view we hold and other grounds are suppressed. Or the intellect goes on in a futile round and justifies the choice which has already been made by some other part of the being. The intellect is merely selective. I felt this very clearly for a long time. And the first result was that the prestige of the intellect was gone. As you go higher up, a wider movement develops which reconciles all contraries. Then you see the forces that are behind mental ideas. Of course, it is no use telling this to the ordinary man as he would be in a most hopeless confusion if he saw everything as mere possibilities. For instance, you would be absolutely confounded if I placed before you all the possibilities.
Disciple: When all intellectual operations appear merely as dealing with possibilities then what is to be selected and how is one to act?
Sri Aurobindo: There is no need to be puzzled. Simply look at them, watch them, see what they are and what is behind them. E.g., I can laugh at Shankaras Mayavada or Gandhi's views; but I can see the truth that is behind them. I know the place they occupy in the play of world-forces; for, it really comes to that.
Disciple: Can want of balance be overcome?
Sri Aurobindo: Everything can be done. You can do it within your limits; you can correct the exaggerations of the parts in you that are well-developed and develop those that are suppressed and bring about a balance in your being.
5 JULY 1924
There was an article in The Hindu against Dr. Abraham's method of treatment.
Sri Aurobindo: There is no argument advanced against Abraham's theory. I am sure his intuition is correct and it will be much more easily worked out by him when the science and experiment are settled so that anyone can do the thing. But, generally, in a discovery a man works by an intuition and the man who first sees the thing can very easily work it out.
I am also pretty sure that the idea that diseases are due to electrical vibrations and that they can be cured by producing certain other more powerful vibrations is also correct.
Apart from the psychic causes, in the pure physical body it works by vibrations. In yogic practice also an electrical phenomenon generally occurs. And when the Power descends some sort of electrical vibrations take place in the physical system. It is by that movement that the diseases are cured — by that the harmony is again restored.
19 SEPTEMBER 1925
There was a discussion between two disciples — one of them was a doctor. The doctors idea was that in Samadhi the physical mind is still, and if we look only to the physical body, then it seems that the venous blood collects in the brain and brings about a sort of anaesthesia of the brain. When the brain is thus completely quieted down then the mind — the mental consciousness — is released from the entanglement of the body. It can then experience more freely the other levels of consciousness.
Disciple: What is the venous blood?
Disciple: Blood having more carbon dioxide in it than the red blood.
Disciple: So the brain becomes full of carbon dioxide in Samadhi, does it?
(In between, a letter was read from a sadhak complaining about the bad condition of his Sadhana and asking permission to come to Pondicherry.)
Sri Aurobindo: Tell him that all the sadhaks get difficulties in Sadhana and periods of depression come to each one. That is no reason to run down here. Even those who are here get periods of depression. One should be able to go through such trials. Sadhana never moves in a straight line — there are always ups and downs. It is not a work of days and months but of years. These periods come generally when something new is going to begin in Sadhana, some opening to a new plane, or some such thing.
The reason why he is not getting knowledge, probably, is that his mind is active. So long as the mind is active Higher Knowledge cannot come. He can get mental knowledge, of course.
Ask him to make his mind passive and open to the Higher Knowledge. Let him stop the egoistic activity in his mind. When I ask him to be passive I do not mean that he should repress the thoughts that come to his mind; he should rather separate himself as the mental Purusha and watch the thoughts as happening in him, but not as his. He has to watch them and reject those that are to be rejected.
Disciple: Many people mistake inertia for passivity. I mistook it for a long time. I used to remain inactive when I got an illness and then I found that I was consenting to it.
Sri Aurobindo: Real passivity is openness to the Higher Force; it is not inertia.
(After a pause Sri Aurobindo turned to the doctor disciple)
Do you know of a Japanese healer, Dr. Kobayashi, a famous surgeon, who is a Yogi following the Amitabha Buddha school of Sadhana? During his medical practice he found that the method he was following was not correct. So he followed an inner process. He makes the patients sit in meditation with him and asks them to concentrate on the navel and to aspire that the Light may come down and set right the affected organ. By now he has cured thousands of patients; of course, his personal influence is indispensable in bringing down the Light.
He has cured tumours and many uterine complaints; he has even cured cancer. He is especially successful in curing diseases of women. His theory is that the disease is due to a passive congestion in the affected part. That is to say, the nerves there get congested and the vital force is not able to reach that part. What the Light does is that it brings about a subtle and quick vibration in the affected part, thereby restoring normal circulation. But whatever the theory, this is a method of curing diseases by pure, subtle force. Something from the occult plane comes down and removes the obstacle from the physical plane.
Disciple: It seems like the method of auto-suggestion given by Dr. Coué.
Sri Aurobindo: No, it is not Coué's method. Coué gives the suggestion which works out in the patient; while this is a direct, occult method.
Disciple: Is his theory correct?
Sri Aurobindo: I can't say. What I think is that some occult force comes down and works out the disease. But it is very difficult to say what exactly happens on the physical plane.
Probably, the Hatha Yogins used to do what this Japanese doctor is doing, with their knowledge of the vital-physical currents. For instance, they could set right all the disorders below the navel by controlling the Vyana — the vital current that works in the whole system. They would find out which Prana is less, then send the required current of vital energy which would work the disease out of the system.
(After a pause) I was thinking of the carbon dioxide explanation of Samadhi. It may be perfectly true so far as a particular kind of Samadhi is concerned. For example, there is a state in which a complete withdrawal into a certain aspect of the Infinite takes place. It is attained by stilling the mind — even the physical mind — altogether. But there are other kinds of concentrations where that explanation would not apply at all. In such concentrations the mind is quite clear, in fact, the mind can be very active and there is no carbon dioxide in the brain.
Disciple: What part does Pranayama play in bringing down the Higher Consciousness?
Sri Aurobindo: It sets the Pranic currents free and removes dullness of the brain so that the Higher Consciousness can come down. Pranayama does not bring dullness in the brain. My own experience, on the contrary, is that the brain becomes illumined. When I was practising Pranayama at Baroda, I used to do it for about five hours in the day, — three hours in the morning and two in the evening. I found that the mind began to work with great illumination and power. I used to write poetry in those days. Before the Pranayama practice, usually I wrote five to eight lines per day, about 200 lines in a month. After the practice I could write 200 lines within half an hour. That was not the only result. Formerly my memory was dull. But after this practice I found that when the inspiration came I could remember all the lines in their order and write them down correctly at any time. Along with these enhanced functionings I could see an electrical activity all around the brain, and I could feel that it was made up of a subtle substance. I could feel everything as the working of that substance. That was far from your carbon dioxide!
Disciple: Did you find any change in mental activity when breathing completely stopped?
Sri Aurobindo: I do not know about complete stopping of the breath, but at the time of Pranayama the breath becomes regular and rhythmic.
Disciple: How is it that Pranayama develops mental capacities? What part does it play in bringing down the Higher Consciousness?
Sri Aurobindo: It is the Pranic currents which sustain mental activity. When these currents are changed by Pranayama, they bring about a change in the brain. The cause of dullness of the brain is some obstruction in it which does not allow the higher thought to be communicated to it. When this obstruction is removed the higher mental being is able to communicate its action easily to the brain. When the Higher Consciousness is attained the brain does not become dull. My experience is that it becomes illumined.
All exercises, like the breathing-practices, are only devices which something that is behind them is using for manifesting itself. On the physical plane also, it is nothing else but certain devices — a system of notations — that we employ. But we give too much importance to the form of the device, because we think the physical to be the most real. If we only knew that the entire physical world is made up of energy and that it is nothing else but the working of a certain consciousness and power using certain devices then we would not be deceived.
Disciple: Is it true that when the Higher Consciousness comes the brain stops thinking?
Sri Aurobindo: What do you mean? The brain is not the seat of thought! It is the mind that thinks, the brain only reacts to it. There is a parallelism between the movements of the brain and those of the Higher Mind. But the brain is only a communicating channel, it is only a support for the higher activity. If the mind is passive it receives things from above, from the Higher Mind, and passes them on to the brain.
Now, if the brain is dull, the mind cannot transmit its action correctly, it does it imperfectly. Sometimes, not always, the lapse in Sadhana also is due to the brain getting tired.
Disciple: Is it not always due to that?
Sri Aurobindo: No, in the bright period the progress is maintained. But when the physical brain flags and refuses to support the effort of the will and mind, then you find a dull and Tamasic condition in Sadhana intervenes.
Disciple: What is sleep?
Sri Aurobindo: Sleep!
Disciple: Physiologically, the nerve-endings get disconnected with the consciousness, and as they are not obliged to do any work they recuperate themselves. All their normal functions are suspended during sleep, so they get rest. There are various theories of sleep in medical science.
Sri Aurobindo: I do not know what it is physiologically, but it is a condition of Tamasic withdrawal into the inner consciousness. It is likely that as the normal functions are suspended the nerves recoup themselves.
Disciple: Do you think that such a retirement into the inner consciousness is a necessary condition for maintaining the body?
Sri Aurobindo: No. It is merely a habit, if you like, a bad habit acquired by man when he was living with the animals, as one writer says.
Disciple: Can one get rid of the habit?
Sri Aurobindo: Yes, of course. Even food is a habit. But that does not mean that you can stop it today. By habit it has become indispensable. If you stop it suddenly your body may break down. You would die if you had no other force which could replace the one you derived from sleep.
Disciple: What is the other thing that can replace sleep?
Sri Aurobindo: Ten minutes of yogic sleep are equal to hours of ordinary sleep.
Disciple: When one sleeps one gets dreams also. Have these dreams anything to do with the brain?
Sri Aurobindo: Dreams have nothing to do with the brain. Adream is merely a confused transcript in sleep of something that happens behind. The thing gets confused because the controlling mind is not there. All sorts of things rush up from the passive memory, events of the day, impressions of the mind. If the mind remains conscious in dreams, you can know the working that takes place behind. Some dreams correctly represent what is taking place behind — such dreams are clear and cogent.
As I said about Samadhi, so also about dreams, it is very difficult to say what happens exactly on the physical plane. All things on the physical plane are merely devices — they are a system of notations — just like the wireless or telegraphic notations, convenient for sending messages; but often we get too busy with the device and mistake it for the thing that is behind the device.
And this applies to all scientific discoveries. For instance, when you say "Hydrogen and oxygen in certain proportions form water," the statement does not explain anything. It only states a fact. You do not know what water is. It only means there is something behind which manifests itself as water under those conditions.
It is the same with the theory of electrons. So far as the physical facts are concerned the theory may be perfectly true. But why should the blessed electrons, which are fundamentally the same substance, form totally different elements and compounds by the change of arrangement of the same number?
Disciple: Not only that, but the addition or subtraction of one electron changes radically the properties — that is, the nature — of the substance. And even with the same number of electrons a change in the arrangement alters radically the substance. So much so that one substance is a poison and the other is not.
Sri Aurobindo: So I say there is something behind the device which already pre-exists on some plane and it is that which adopts the device in order to manifest itself. But the device is not the reality. The power from behind can change the device. Of course, the power working from behind comes down on the physical plane through the device, and so people generally think that it is the device which is responsible for the manifestation.
As an instance of the change of device I told you about Agamya Guru Paramahamsa. He could stop his heart-beats and go on talking and working like other men. Now, ordinarily, when the heart stops the man dies, or gets into a cataleptic Samadhi. But in his case it was not so.
Disciple: How many hours do you sleep?
Sri Aurobindo: Five hours or more.
Disciple: Can you do without sleep?
Sri Aurobindo: Ihave not tried yet.
Disciple: But suppose you try?
Sri Aurobindo: I cant say, Imust try and see. Once Itried for two days with the result that on the third day Islept for nine hours.
Disciple: Is there no difference between your sleep and that ofan ordinary person?
Sri Aurobindo: It is not all like ordinary sleep, — though it is that for the most part. The only time that I very nearly conquered sleep was in jail. Iused to keep awake for two days and sleep on the third. I did it for ten days.
20 SEPTEMBER 1925
A letter from Bhupal Chandra Bose, Sri Aurobindo's father-in-law, relating the illness of another son-in-law of his. It is a case of tuberculosis.
Sri Aurobindo (to a disciple) : You can write to him that Iwill do my best to help him, though under the circumstances it is difficult for me to do so. But a change of climate might help him.
Disciple: Dr. Matthews, a specialist in T.B., says that it is not medicine but social surroundings, the economic condition, that must change for a cure. Air, light, food, walking — these are more important than medicine.
Sri Aurobindo: His ideas are quite sane. This disease starts generally when there is psychic depression.
Disciple: What is psychic depression ?
Sri Aurobindo: It is the depression of the inner being. (Laughter — as the question was evaded.)
(After a pause) There is something in us that takes the joy of life. I don't mean the vital joy. Normally, it is a certain inner happiness, — you can't really call it happiness, it is a certain inner joy and well-being kept up by the psychic being. When that gets affected then there is psychic depression.
Disciple: How does that get affected?
Sri Aurobindo: Well, there are so many causes: some shock, some great sorrow, a weighing down by anxiety, overwork, care or trouble, or some affection of a vital organ of the physical system — any of these can bring about psychic depression.
Disciple: Can it be overcome?
Sri Aurobindo: All kinds of depression can be overcome.
Disciple: How can the psychic depression be overcome?
Sri Aurobindo: By supplying the psychic force. (Laughter)
(After a pause) This psychic depression comes in a very strange way. Suppose you keep an artist in very ugly surroundings, then his psychic being may get depressed.
Disciple: If it is a question of giving psychic force to the patient, then I believe it is comparatively easy work for you.
Sri Aurobindo: But I can't be all the time putting force. The difficulty is that we are not known to each other. This case seems more hopeful than that of X because here at least I can put the force. In the case of X also we were not known to each other. But when I send the help I find there is something very thick in the atmosphere there and so a great pressure has to be put before it can be pierced through and the resistance overcome. Perhaps there is somebody in the family who resists. The third reason for the unsuccessful result is that the man is not accustomed to the kind of inner exercise involved in receiving psychic help.
Such cases at a distance are difficult. It is easier in the case of a person who is near or somebody who has faith, or psychic contact.
Disciple: By what other way can psychic depression be overcome?
Sri Aurobindo: There are many ways. If the man is vitally strong then his vital force can help remove the psychic depression. These forces in the inner being can always mutually react.
Disciple: What is the vital force?
Sri Aurobindo: It is the life-force in man; there is a certain energy you feel within you which meets the shocks of life. It is that which gives you capacity to overcome obstacles. It is very necessary for ordinary men. It can pull you through a prolonged illness. As the Prashna Upanishad says: prāṇasyedam vaśe sarvam tridive yat pratiṣṭhitam — Whatever there is in this universe is subject to Prana. Even mental activities are due to Prana, life-force. It is the life-force that keeps the world going.
Disciple: How to overcome vital depression?
Sri Aurobindo: By supplying the vital force. (Laughter)
(After a pause) You have to draw the vital energy from the infinite ocean of universal vital force that is all around you.
Disciple: The next question is: "How to draw it?"
Sri Aurobindo: You have something more than your hands and feet, with which you can lay hold on the vital energy from within.
Disciple: How to draw the vital force? I mean I don't know how to draw it consciously.
Sri Aurobindo: What you can do unconsciously you can always teach yourself to do consciously.
There are two main ways: passive and active. In the first you remain passive, waiting for the vital force to enter into you; then you find it rushes into you. In the other method you lay hold on the force and draw it in.
Disciple: Suppose a man is weak and you give him spiritual help; can it do harm to him?
Sri Aurobindo: No. Weakness does not matter. But if there is anything that obstructs the working of the Higher Power then it may harm him.
Disciple: How can the Higher Power harm a person?
Sri Aurobindo: It is not the Higher Power that harms; it is the fight that harms, because the struggle is made more acute on account of the hostile forces. It is always safer to avoid such conflicts.
(After a pause) If I were to put force on Y probably the first result would be that he would be more mad, because those forces that possess him now would naturally get angry. In the case of Z also the difficulty was that he was completely possessed by the hostile force.
26 SEPTEMBER 1925
A telegram came from Calcutta containing discouraging news about the health of the patient.
Disciple (doctor): He might be going through his last stages.
Sri Aurobindo: After seeing the photograph I had little hope. In cases like this one there are two conditions necessary: 1. Personal contact and readiness to receive help; 2. the descent of the Higher Power which does not care for the circumstances. But conditions are not yet ready for such a descent.
Disciple (doctor): This is a preventable disease and can be easily prevented by improving the general condition of hygiene and sanitation.
Sri Aurobindo: Yes, it is true; but our town-life with its crowding and the wear and tear of modern life hardly create the vital and psychic atmosphere for a long span of life or vital healthfulness.
Disciple: In some countries in Europe, especially Scotland, there are very efficient organisations. For example, in Edinburgh they supply sputum pots for every man in the family. It is then examined and those persons suspected of being affected are segregated, treated and cured. Their sputum is again examined and when it is found to be normal then they are allowed to go back and live with the family.
Sri Aurobindo: Yes, you can raise the standard of health and eliminate these diseases to a very great extent by these means.
Disciple: Cannot death be conquered by them?
Sri Aurobindo: Oh, no; death is far too ingenious for that. That is never the way to conquer death. Nature is not so mechanical; she is a conscious being. If you try to circumvent her in one way she circumvents you in another. All that this sanitation and hygiene etc. of yours can deal with is the physical circumstances of health. But they cannot get at the vital forces which are behind and of which the physical circumstances are mere instruments. During the war there was a perfect organisation to prevent epidemics, and that succeeded well. But after the war they broke out with great force. All that is not conquering death.
Disciple: Swami Brahmananda of Chandod lived for more than 200 years.
Sri Aurobindo: Yes. If you know Hatha Yoga you can keep the body safe against disease. You can also reduce the slow process of ageing by supplying the vital force. The difficulty is you can't be always in Samadhi.
Disciple: Tibbati Baba says that man can conquer death by taking a certain medicine.
Sri Aurobindo: With apologies to our friend, the doctor, Imust say it is more likely to kill you sooner.
Disciple: But he says also that it is very difficult for a man to take it — the condition is that he must observe Brahmacharya.
Disciple: Yes, and there will be some other conditions also which it will be quite impossible to fulfil.
Disciple: He promised to give the medicine to X after some time.
Disciple: Why after some time?
Sri Aurobindo: But X died very young from the yogic point of view.
Disciple: Yes, he died before he could take the medicine. (Laughter)
Disciple: Death so managed it that he could not get the medicine in time!
Disciple: Has anyone conquered death before in the past?
Sri Aurobindo: We have to find out, — we don't know. The Mahatmas are said to have conquered death.
Disciple: They can be seen in Vaishakha Valley according to a recent publication of the Theosophists.
Disciple: Aswatthama is said to be immortal.
Sri Aurobindo: And, it seems, he has been seen by some people somewhere in Gujarat.
Disciple: It was near Surpan on the Narbada river.
Sri Aurobindo: He leaves footprints twice as big as those of our friend here.
Disciple: Formerly, according to an article by Mr. Hiren Dutt, there was nothing but gas on this earth.
Sri Aurobindo: Yes, and the earth was volcanic and man could not live upon it.
Disciple: Then he became a bag and remained in his kāraṇa śarīra — causal body — and from that condition he developed into something like a barrel without hands and feet.
Sri Aurobindo: But there are cycles of evolution, not one evolutionary movement.
Disciple: Yes, many cycles have taken place in this world-evolution and different races have their roots.
Sri Aurobindo: There are five root races and others are sub-races; and, I believe, the sixth root race was being prepared in California and then it has shifted perhaps to Australia.
Disciple: Their theory is that there was a great civilisation on the continent of Atlantis.
Sri Aurobindo: Yes, there is every possibility that it is true.
Disciple: What is the proof?
Sri Aurobindo: Well, it is so, perhaps, because the Master says it is so. But apart from that, they take their stand on geology and the theory of evolution. Once there was an idea that civilisation is only three or four thousand years old. Now people are forced to change their ideas.
Disciple: But the details about the last civilisation and the Mahatmas — are they all true?
Sri Aurobindo: What do you mean by 'true'? On the vital plane there is nothing that you cannot see: you can recast the whole history of the world. It is not the mental plane — really speaking it is the mental-vital. I was in that condition for ten days and any number of things came at that time.
Disciple: You could have written them down.
Sri Aurobindo: If I had thought them worthwhile.
Disciple: But then how far is it all true?
Sri Aurobindo: There is always some truth at the bottom. For instance, there is every likelihood that the continent of Atlantis had a great civilisation. So also the idea of evolution is true as far as physical evolution is concerned. But the fourth and fifth root race and the other details which are given are not certain.
That is the difficulty: to isolate the true intuition from the mixture — mental as well as vital. It would be quite another matter if one could keep the mind completely passive. But, evidently, that is impossible. The mind enters so much and also the vital being — they are both great and active creators.
Disciple: But what you see on the vital plane — in that state — is it true?
Sri Aurobindo: Again, what do you mean by true? Something that you see is true somewhere — on some other plane — some of those things are probabilities, some are only tendencies trying to realise themselves. But it may not be true for this earth-plane.
7 OCTOBER 1925
A telegram from Jagatsingh (about his health): "Worse and spirits better."
11 OCTOBER 1925
The question this evening was whether Coué's method could be used by a sadhak of this Yoga and also what attitude one must keep when diseases came. In many families in India some kind of illness is a normal feature and one has to be always attending to the patient.
Disciple: Is there any objection to using Dr. Coué's method for curing disease?
Sri Aurobindo: No, there is not the slightest objection to using it. Only, you must know that you can't auto-suggest yourself into the Supermind, because that is not so easy. That is to say, that method won't do for this Yoga. If you constantly go on suggesting to yourself, "I am pure" — you would not automatically become pure. There is the question of facing facts. You have to see what is impure in you, then call down the Higher Power and pray to Her to purify you.
In Coué's method there is a sharp distinction between will and imagination. You must know what 'will' is. Coué's idea is not the same as our idea of will. Will is not mental effort, it is not the vital push which men use in general to satisfy their desires. It is not strong wishing either; will is not a struggling, striving and unquiet thing. It is calm. When it is calm it is really a call for the Higher Power to come down and act. There is a will which works by dominating over Nature. Another kind of will does not so much dominate as aspire in a prayerful mood for the Higher Power to come down. The highest will is the Divine Will. It is that which is indispensable to all success, it acts automatically.
Disciple: For the cure of the disease, by any method whatsoever, is not faith necessary?
Sri Aurobindo: Faith is necessary for any such cure, even in Coué's method.
Disciple: How is Coué's method useful for the sadhak of our Yoga?
Sri Aurobindo: It may be used to a certain extent in the beginning but not to the end. His method is not universal. It does not succeed in all cases. In fact, it depends upon hypnotising the unconscious. But in some people's case the unconscious refuses the suggestion, so it does not succeed.
In our Yoga we have to grow more and more conscious, so that the subconscious also, in our case, becomes wide awake. Besides, the aim of our Yoga is not to find out the most efficient method of healing diseases so much as to change the entire consciousness — even the physical — in order that disease may not come at all. The entire being must be so transformed that disease becomes impossible.
The question of compatibility of Yoga and action was raised.
Sri Aurobindo: Activity is not incompatible with our Yoga. The action to be done should proceed on the basis of peace and knowledge. It must be deliberate and calm. One can take up action in which many men are not concerned — which depends upon ones own self for its performance. For instance, intellectual work and physical work can be done in this Yoga. There may come a time when all action has to be abandoned — such a stage has a temporary utility. In that period one has to do intensive concentrated Sadhana.
Secondly, when one rises to another plane of consciousness, one finds the whole viewpoint about things completely changed. In that condition one cannot continue the same intellectual activity as before. One has to wait till the Higher Consciousness begins to act. Of course, when the entire being is transformed then one has to accept all the planes of life and manifest the Higher Consciousness in life.
There was mention of "rich development" of Sadhana.
Sri Aurobindo: A well-trained intellect and a strong vital being are a great hindrance as well as a great help in this Yoga. They are helpful because they render the being wide and allow the higher activity easily. For instance, if the intellect is well-trained, accurate, and can arrange things, is plastic and elastic, then the sadhak can understand the working of the Higher Power, arrange his experience, discriminate and so on. But intellect can also be an obstacle because it tends to be an independent plane of consciousness. It may be unwilling to let go its control or hold. It may continue making efforts for the Higher Knowledge in which case the latter can never develop. It can hamper the progress by doubt, denial and refusal to give up its control. The same is the case with a strong vital being. If it is transparent and pure it is a very great help. But if there is something impure in it which refuses to give itself up to the Higher Power, obstinate and turned downwards, then it is a great hindrance.
Richness in Sadhana can be attained even without any previous preparation. There comes a time in Sadhana when the various parts of the being attain to their fulfilment from within — of course, this is true within certain limits.
A disciple mentioned the difficulty of the vital impulse to act.
Sri Aurobindo: The impulse to act is always there, especially if one has been doing action. It is a movement of the dynamic mind which wants to go on doing things. It goes on acting, planning, thinking even when one does not want to act. The dynamic mind wants to throw itself into action. From the point of view of Yoga it is a waste of energy. What you have to do is to separate yourself from your nature and all its movements. You must be able to see them as things coming from the universal Prakriti. You must externalise them all.
14 OCTOBER 1925
A letter from Nirmal Chand about Jagatsingh's illness. In Sri Aurobindo's reply the following points were mentioned:
Improvement in his cancer is encouraging. It shows receptivity.
I had been working on those points where he finds improvement.
Where he has failed it is due not to his fault, but because the Power that is coming down does not as yet dominate the most material plane.
If Jagatsingh can stand the fight for a long time there is no reason why he should not be cured. It is very difficult to say with certainty what the result would be in such a case, yet I have not given it up as a desperate one. The attitude of Samata which he has taken up with regard to the result is absolutely necessary.
In the letter Jagatsingh had said that the spiritual help was undeserved.
Sri Aurobindo: It is never undeserved. It has come to him because he is a good Adhar. His psychic being seems to be of an unusually high order, and his other parts of nature are also strong.
( Jagatsingh had expressed a desire to see Sri Aurobindo either psychically or physically.)
I do not know whether he has got the psychic sight. I mean whether he has developed it and is able to see visions etc. However I shall try. If he can maintain his fight he can see me here.
(Moni Lahiri took up the Yoga and finds peace after he began Sadhana. He used to be very violent and angry.)
Sri Aurobindo: That kind of mind takes a long time to come round. I do not think he would be able to complete his progress in this life. He seems to be a man who would take several lives before he could progress. Of course, nothing can be said with certainty because something may turn up and change the whole course of the being.
Disciple: What would such a radical change be due to?
Sri Aurobindo: It would be obviously due to something. It is something going on behind that is responsible for such a change and all the mental reasoning, causes and other things, that appear with the change, are merely external covers, mere arrangements for working out the thing that is in the background.
Disciple: Is it not due to the Grace of God?
Sri Aurobindo: That is a way of explaining it, though, really speaking, it does not explain anything when you say, "It is Divine Grace."
Disciple: But is there no law governing the Grace?
Sri Aurobindo: You seem to be very constitutional. You must allow God some absolute power!
Disciple: I do, I have no objection to His having absolute power!
Disciple: A great concession to God!
Disciple: What I object to in God is that He is not definite. There must be certain conditions to deserve His Grace!
Sri Aurobindo: That is again merely a way of putting it. You may as well say in Jagatsingh's case that he deserved it because he made himself fit for it by making mental and other efforts.
Disciple: But there must be some reason.
Sri Aurobindo: God may have His own reasons, which are obviously not your mental reasons.
Disciple: But why can't God be definite?
Sri Aurobindo: If He became definite then all the mojā — fun — would go.
Disciple: Then you will make a law of it.
Disciple: But in this way God breaks His own laws!
Sri Aurobindo: How do you know that He breaks His own laws? That is why some religions say that there is nothing but Grace. God's Grace is inexplicable. It eludes all mental analysis.
Disciple: In that case the Bhaktas have a very good chance.
Sri Aurobindo: Again you want to make another law! You can't say that the devotees have more chance. All you can say is, "Such and such things happen." God's Grace is without any reason. There are no mental laws governing it. Even in Yoga what His Grace does is much more than what can be done by personal effort.
Disciple: In Sadhana you go on trying and trying and the obstruction does not yield. Then suddenly you find the point of resistance is removed.
Sri Aurobindo: That is what I say. In such cases the effort is nowhere.
Disciple: Then everything is due to Grace, we must say.
Sri Aurobindo: In a way, you can say that. It is again a way of putting it!
Disciple: In the case of men who undergo a sudden change in their life, I think it is due to Grace. For example, there is the case of Lala Babu: he heard only one word and at once got Vairagya.
Sri Aurobindo: Vairagya many people get.
Disciple: With him it lasted.
Sri Aurobindo: Yes, it can easily last. That is not the question. Even in the case of persons whose external life shows no sign that promises a change, that is, in the most unexpected cases also changes may come. In such cases, judging merely by the external life, you can't say that there was nothing in the man that wanted to change. The question is not what the mind and other parts demand, but what the inner being demands.
Many times it happens that the psychic being is covered up completely by some obstruction and then suddenly a blow is given which at once removes the obstacle.
Disciple: But the first awakening of the inner being is due to Grace, I believe?
Sri Aurobindo: All first awakenings are an act of Grace. You are given a glimpse and then you have to work it out.
Disciple: Then there is no room for effort.
Sri Aurobindo: That is a way of putting it! You can say there is Grace and there is effort also, both are true and necessary. Grace is above; what the mind can do is to prepare itself and the rest of the being — the vital and the physical — for the Grace. The mind can even work out the impurities and in a way break the resistance.
Disciple: There may be no law governing Grace in the sense in which we understand it, but there must be some law though not a mental one?
Sri Aurobindo: Of course, there is a law. But in the beginning God respects the law of each plane even though He transcends it. When the human being is raised completely above the mind then he finds the new law. Then all constructions of the mind break down.
Theoretically, there is no reason why Supermind should not come down soon and why one should not get it in a series of flashes in six months. But in that way the object is not attained. The object is to see the world-forces, to meet them on their own plane and defeat them there. Practically, it means a fight with the world-forces.
Disciple: But suppose the world-forces do not want the Supermind?
Sri Aurobindo: It is not what the world-forces want, but what you want that matters. Forces can only intensify the struggle. The world-forces never want to change their law. But if you and God want to change them then they can be changed. Your wanting to change them is necessary, but without God wanting it, it is not sufficient.
Disciple: If the world-forces do not want to change then how to change them?
Sri Aurobindo: You have to work on them, meet them and defeat them.
The talk turned to a sadhak whose mind was deranged.
Disciple: What is his madness due to?
Sri Aurobindo: Evidently, it is not want of intelligence that sent him mad. Even in the shattered intelligence of his present state you can see sparks of truth coming out. Some of the things he said were quite true though he expressed them in a queer way. For instance, he said, "I keep all the experiences hanging till I reach the Supermind." That is quite true. Something from behind was trying to express the truth. His external being always misapplies the truth he gets in this way. Here the truth is that the mind has to hold all opposite things in balance till the Higher Light comes and reconciles them.
Disciple: If his intelligence was all right then where was the defect in him?
Sri Aurobindo: The defect was in the physical mind. There was also weakness in the physical nervous system. I cannot be sure whether that was due to something in the very material constitution of the body itself. The power that he pulled into himself was too much for the physical mind and the nerves. His physical being also is very weak. When the Higher Power descended upon it, it broke down.
Disciple: Could he have been saved if he had been here?
Sri Aurobindo: Well, that depends. But I could have attended to the situation myself and dealt at once without having to wait for letters. The atmosphere here also might have helped him. But I can't say. It is only a probability, because the defect in his lower nature was there.
Disciple: There are cures of madness effected by Ojhas — certain people with occult knowledge. Are such cures final?
Sri Aurobindo: If the man has nothing in him which calls back the force that possessed him, he may get well permanently. But if he has some part which feels empty without the possessing force then it may come back.
A letter from a sadhika stating that she gets Shanti but no new experience.
Sri Aurobindo: You can ask what kind of Shanti she is feeling. Is it a mental quiet or does the peace descend from above? It is the first thing that comes in this Yoga. But there are various kinds of peace. There is a peace which descends with wideness. Ask her if she feels that she is living in that peace and wideness.
If she does not, what she has to do is to go on deepening the peace. She must experience the peace more and more till it becomes constant and remains even while she is not sitting in meditation. All her work must proceed from that peace. If she can succeed in this she will be able to know how the thought comes into the mind and from where. She will also be able to see the movement in her vital being. She must slowly feel something in her that is detached from all these things.
Another sadhika wrote how her husband, after insisting on her taking up Yoga, had now turned round. He wanted to be flattered, and so misconstrued her silence as displeasure, her independent opinion as haughtiness and her strong determinadon to reject and throw away all vital enjoyment as an insult.
Sri Aurobindo: What is remarkable about her is her sharp and honest intelligence. You can tell her that the higher relation, if there was any, would unfold itself from above, and it can be known only then. What then happens can be left aside at present. She must neither accept nor reject her relation with her husband. She must remain firm in her resolve about the Yoga and allow things to take their own course.
Disciple: I know of some cures effected by Pagala Kali Baba in Bengal. An iron ring is given to the patient to be worn always on the person. If he takes it off under any circumstances he again gets a relapse. There are other rules also, e.g., he must change his clothes after going to the lavatory. Are these men permanently cured?
Sri Aurobindo: They have a sort of protection, an armour or Kavacha, around them. But the defect in the nature of the person may remain underneath the Kavacha. You must know that the hostile forces are very persistent and obstinate — being so is their common virtue!
5 NOVEMBER 1925
Sri Aurobindo was not disposed at first to talk this evening. Then a disciple put a question about immunity from physical diseases by Hatha Yoga.
Sri Aurobindo: In Hatha Yoga you are all right so long as you continue the practice. As soon as you leave it off you are liable to attacks.
In Raja Yoga also you have to continue Pranayama once you begin it. My own experience is that when I was practising Pranayama at Baroda I had excellent health. But when I went to Bengal and left Pranayama, I was attacked by all sorts of illness which nearly carried me off.
5 DECEMBER 1925
Mrs. X wanted to have Sri Aurobindo's guidance after the death of her husband. She also expressed a desire to see in the subtle her dead husband.
Sri Aurobindo: About her seeing her husband who is dead, two things may be written to her: Firstly, it depends on a certain capacity in oneself to be able to see, which, everybody has not got. Secondly, if the departed soul has got the will he can manifest himself. But if he is not willing, it is not good to pull him back to that relation, as it may retard his movement in the other planes where he may have to remain for his development. It is not good to tie him down to earthly attachment.
She writes about the Truth and its attainment. In case she wants it the demand for it must be independent of the depression through which she is passing. If there is a call deep within her then it will be answered.
Disciple: There is A, from Chittagong, who wants a reply to his letter. He is already having a hut there for his Sadhana.
Sri Aurobindo: Idon't understand why a hut is necessary.
Disciple: It is the time-honoured custom for beginning spiritual life. You don't seem to give any value to it.
Sri Aurobindo: Was it a custom to build a hut before you began Sadhana?
Disciple: No. They used to give up everything and retire to the forest.
Sri Aurobindo: And immediately build a hut?
Disciple: In the Ramayana there is a story of a king — I think Dhvaja — who went to the forest and remained in a hut.
Disciple: Yes, and his Guru — who was his wife in disguise — came there and convinced him that he had not given up the world! (Laughter) Then they went back and lived happily ever afterwards.
Sri Aurobindo: That was all right in those days. But now people who think of building huts have more chance of going mad than they had in the olden times.
Disciple: What is the cause of it? Why do people nowadays easily fall a prey to the forces that bring madness?
Sri Aurobindo: You had better read Vincent Smith; there you will find all the causes.
Disciple: You are not in a mood to reply. Would it be a very long reply?
Disciple: It would be a voluminous reply!
Disciple: I wanted to know not the ordinary causes but the subtle causes.
Sri Aurobindo: Maybe it is due to people leaving off eating bulls and calves. (Laughter)
Disciple: Today all my questions seem ill-timed.
Sri Aurobindo: Why? You seem to despise all my solutions today! (Laughter)
( A pause of a few minutes)
Sri Aurobindo: Among other things the Vaishnavite Sadhana has contributed to this madness in Yoga. They brought down the whole Sadhana into the emotional plane and they could not distinguish between the true emotional movement of the psychic and spiritual being and the vital and other lower parts which imitate it. It is that which gives room for all sorts of lower forces to enter.
This movement of restlessness and madness came to be accepted to such an extent that madness was almost regarded as another word for 'yoga'. Pagol koré dao — make me mad — was the aspiration! Of course, I am not speaking of the old Vaishnavism but of the present-day forms.
Disciple: Even in Sri Chaitanya you see that weeping and dancing and even restlessness.
Sri Aurobindo: Yes. It had already begun in his time.
The second thing is that our physical mind is not well developed. Being a dependent nation we have no scope for large action and therefore the development of our physical minds is poor. There must be something positive in the physical mind, an element that grasps at the Reality. In its own nature, the physical mind refuses to believe anything else except Matter to be real. There is the extreme case of X who used to switch off the electric light when he saw the Light descending in his inner being! Not that kind of thing, but some element of it is necessary so that the physical mind may question everything and accept only the Truth.
Some of these sadhaks see all kinds of visions. At times they see a buffalo and think that they have attained Siddhi! It never even once occurs to them to put the questions: "After all, what do these visions mean?" "What have I gained from them so far?" If you suggest these questions they brush them aside.
30 JANUARY 1926
A disciple got fever which was suspected to be malarial. So the methods of cure were discussed.
Disciple: There is a method of resorting to Anushthan. In some cases they strike the head with a stone block or turn the beard etc. Is there any truth in these?
Sri Aurobindo: Why not? Anything — even a hammer — can cure if you have the faith.
Disciple: Is faith by itself sufficient?
Sri Aurobindo: Yes; even Coué's method is a combination of faith and will.
Disciple: Has Anushthan by itself no value ?
Sri Aurobindo: If you have no faith then certainly it has no value. If you have faith it may not be necessary. But if you have faith in Anushthan then it is necessary.
Disciple: But certain people cure by using a Mantra.
Sri Aurobindo: Mantra is something different from Anushthan. Generally, it is a vital force that is put in the Mantra, it is not psychic or spiritual in its nature.
Disciple: Are there no psychic or spiritual Mantras and do they not undergo change by being put to egoistic purposes?
Sri Aurobindo: The psychic is the psychic and remains the psychic, — it does its work. It does not fail, it does not try to play God as the vital and other forces do.
Disciple: Is Coué's method only an Anushthan?
Sri Aurobindo: As I told you before, it is the combination of will and faith. But that is not enough by itself. Repeating the same words ("Day by day, in every way, I am getting better and better.") is of the nature of an Anushthan. But there is a third something, I can't say what it is, which is necessary. That something automatically comes down when the conditions are ready.
I used to get fever and sometimes something would come down and reject it successfully, while at other times you have to go on working at one thing again and again. I have seen that the strongest faith does not succeed; you may have the strongest will and yet the cure may not be effected.
Not that faith is not necessary or the will is not useful. But they both require a third element on whose coming down — even if there is opposition — the thing gets done. Generally, the idea is that one succeeds when the circumstances are favourable and when there is no strong opposition. But that is not always true.
When the third element is there then the opposition even does not matter, success invariably comes.
4 FEBRUARY 1926
The subject this evening was the ideal of a perfect body which would be incorruptible.
Sri Aurobindo: The ideal is all right. But the physical being is not at all satisfactory — and one can't get over it by ignoring facts.
Disciple: Mahatma Gandhi in his autobiography refers to many experiments with the body. He holds that the world has to become fit to receive the Truth.
Sri Aurobindo: That is true. His autobiography will be a classical book in a line with the confessions of Rousseau and St. Augustine. But the question is whether his ideal is the Truth. That is to say, we must know whether we are on the right path when we advocate an ethical solution as final.
Then there was a turn in the conversation. A disciple asked about occult phenomena.
Disciple: There are cases of removal of flower-vases and movements of tables during occult stances. Are these things done by the power of suggestion?
Sri Aurobindo: No. The power of suggestion is not the explanation.
Disciple: The report is that there is a smoky path stretching from the medium to the object.
Sri Aurobindo: That is possible; there are various forms of Matter. What we know is the grossest form but there are other subtler ranges of Matter, and each form has its own properties. There are seven earths mentioned in Indian mythology; also according to the Veda there are three earths. King Kartavirya is reported to have conquered fourteen earths!
Disciple: Are there other bodies than the physical?
Sri Aurobindo: There is in fact no gap in man's sheaths. It is a gamut or scale ascending from the lowest to the highest plane; and the principle of each is repeated in all. Thus all is in each. Otherwise the world cannot go on. There are four other bodies different from this material physical body which we have.
Disciple: What happens when a man dies and his physical body disappears?
Sri Aurobindo: When a thing disappears it may go into the next plane which is not the gross material, but is physical all the same. So there is no question of dematerialisation.
Disciple: There is an idea of materialisation and dematerialisation in the case of occult phenomena. For instance, if a material object appears, and then disappears, what is the explanation?
Sri Aurobindo: But what is dematerialisation? In fact, we must ask: "What is Matter?" It is made of certain forces or a play of forces holding up, or maintaining, the physical form, is it not?
Disciple: In that case can we not speak of 'life' of an atom?
Sri Aurobindo: The explanation can be that when an object is made to disappear in the fourth dimension of space then it is dematerialisation and when it is put out from the fourth dimension into our space then it is materialisation, because then the object appears to us.
Disciple: But nowadays scientists speak of the selective power of the atom; then can we not speak of 'life' of an atom?
Sri Aurobindo: Life in an atom. But these things one has to see with the inner eye.
Disciple: What is meant by seeing with the inner eye, and by bodies in the fourth dimension?
Sri Aurobindo: It is a way of saying; more easily you can feel it, that is, be conscious of it.
Disciple: Does one know them?
Sri Aurobindo: One feels them. Knowledge and consciousness are not the same thing. It is not formulated knowledge. It is rather a feeling.
Disciple: But one sees no sign of life in an atom.
Sri Aurobindo: J.C. Bose has shown there is what may be called 'fatigue' in metals and plants, and metals are sensitive to poisons.
Disciple: There is the reported case of the breaking of an iron rod by some subtle or occult force.
Sri Aurobindo: That is life-force: it acts on the life-force in the metal. But in the metal it is so mechanical and so different from what we ordinarily know as life that we can't call it 'life'.
Form is the most visible sign of life in the atom. So there is a tendency in the physical atom to throw away anything that would destroy the form: there is an effort to preserve the form.
Disciple: If we do not see any sign of life how can we say that there is life?
Sri Aurobindo: Life or life-consciousness is a relative term. Of course it is not like human life or even life in the vegetable kingdom.
Disciple: Then how to say that there is life or consciousness?
Sri Aurobindo: You can only experience it. If you enter into the universal consciousness which is common to all things then you can feel the metal's parsimonious and spare manifestation of life. In Matter itself and around it you can feel this life and enter into it by identification with the universal spirit. When a blow is given to the table you can feel that you are struck — of course, you can speak of it metaphorically, you can't demonstrate it but you can identify yourself with it.
Disciple: How can one begin to feel this identification?
Sri Aurobindo: The first thing one sees when one has broken the barrier is the vital-physical body. It is around the physical body and with the physical it forms as it were the 'nervous envelope'. The force of a disease has to break through it to reach the body — except for the attacks on the most material parts.
You can then feel the disease coming and also feel in the nervous envelope the part of the body which it is going to, or intending to, attack because what is in the nervous envelope has a material counterpart in the body. Thus it is the vital-physical which is first attacked and then the force takes the form of a disease in the system.
I had myself the experience of fever all around the body.
Disciple: Should one be sensitive to these disturbances?
Sri Aurobindo: All disturbance and agitation is a sign of weakness. One must be stolid, and attend to the development of consciousness. No agitation — only feeling and knowledge.
Disciple: Is there continuity in Matter?
Disciple: And there is the same selection under the same conditions, so that it is mechanical only and there is no 'life'!
Sri Aurobindo: It has life — but it is life of quite another kind. There is consciousness in it also — but it is involved and works under mechanical laws and it is not individualised. In material objects there are physical forces trying to maintain the forms. But there is even some life-force gathered round the form by the universal consciousness which is behind it.
Perhaps it even gets experience but the experience is not recorded. There is no growth, because there is no individualisation. And even that idea of individualisation is relative. You can say, "It has a kind of individuality." But relatively speaking it has none. Man is more individualised, though one can say he is not yet truly an individual, because the true individuality has not yet manifested.
20 DECEMBER 1938
After Sri Aurobindo's lunch, at about 4-30 p.m., I was reading to him the memorial orations on X, a prominent public man. One after another, beginning with the Governor, they had praised him in the most superlative terms, e.g. "upright", "honest", "a friend of the poor", etc.
Sri Aurobindo: Good Lord! (Then, bursting into laughter) X ought to be canonized Saint X! One can generalise the statement that all men are liars. Such is public life. When Y died, D and others who were life-long against him, did the same thing.
Later the talk turned to homeopathy, its dosage, its difference from allopathy etc.
Sri Aurobindo: Homeopathy is nearer to Yoga and allopathy is more mechanical. Homeopathy deals with the physical personality, the symptoms put together making up the physical personality, while allopathy goes by diagnosis which does not consider the personality. The action of homeopathy is more subtle and dynamic.
Disciple: Some Yogis go into Samadhi as a release from bodily pain and suffering. But there are those who don't do that and bear the pain.
Sri Aurobindo: Yes. Yogis can go into Samadhi and put an end to the sensations. But it is not necessary to have a disease in order to go into Samadhi. Besides, when one decides to bear it, it seems to me a way of accepting the disease. But I don't understand the utility of going into Samadhi to escape from pain.
Ramakrishna once said to Keshav Chandra Sen, when the former was seriously ill, that his body was breaking up under the stress of his spiritual development. But there is no necessity of having a disease for the sake of spiritual development.
Disciple: If Ramakrishna had the will he would have prevented the disease.
Sri Aurobindo: Oh yes. But he did not believe in such will, or prayer to the Divine to cure his disease.
Disciple: It is said that he got his cancer because of the sins of his disciples.
Sri Aurobindo: Yes. He said so himself and, when he said that, it must be true. You know he is said to have given arguments for and against the view that the Guru has to take up many things of the disciples upon himself.
The Mother does that because she unites herself with the disciples; takes them up into herself. Of course, she at the same time stops also many things from happening in herself. A famous Yogi told a disciple of his when he was becoming a Guru, "In addition to your own difficulties you are taking up those of others." Of course, if one cuts the connection with the disciples then that can't happen but that means no work and the sadhaks are left: to themselves without support.
This sort of interchange is very common. Wherever two persons meet, the interchange is going on. In that way one contracts a disease from another without any infection by germs. N was conscious of what he was receiving from others and did not care to think about what he was passing to them. Not only that, he even thought he had power for good or for evil. Bad thoughts may affect others. That is why Buddha used to emphasise right thought etc. You find some people cannot do without meeting others. What is after all the passion of man and woman for each other? Nothing but this vital interchange, this drawing in of forces from each other. When a woman has a need of someone else, that means she is in need of a vital force from him. Woman and man running after each other means this interchange or drawing. Of course, it takes place unconsciously; even in ordinary life when a person does not like another he does not know the reason but it means that their vital beings don't agree. You know the lines:
I do not like thee, Doctor Fell,
The reason why I cannot tell.
One may not know exactly if it is the incapacity of the vital or disagreement. You see people — men and women — quarrelling violently with each other and yet they can't do without each other; that is because each has a need of the vital force from the other. Of course the need has been imposed on the woman by man. Woman has almost always such a necessity. That is what is called being in love. In all societies they established the husband-and-wife relation so that this exchange and interchange may be limited to each other and an equation may be established.
Disciple: But if one draws more, then there is arisk.
Sri Aurobindo: Of course. If one receives more than what he gives then there may be bad consequences for the other. You know what Hindu Astrology says about Rakshasa Yoga: A husband who loses many wives one after another means that instead of supporting them he is eating them up.
Disciple: What are vampires?
Sri Aurobindo: Those who constatldy draw from others' vital beings without giving anything in return we call vampires.
Disciple: Are they so by nature or owing to some possession?
Sri Aurobindo: May be either. There are men vampires as there are women vampires. There is also the vital which is expansive in its nature. In such a case one has the need of pouring out the vital force. But there is again another kind of expansive vital which is the Hitlerian vital, catching hold of other people and keeping them under ones grip.
Disciple: Is psychic love of that nature?
Sri Aurobindo: Of course not. The law of the psychic is to give without making any demand.
21 DECEMBER 1938
Disciple: There was a time when barbers occupied a respectable place in medicine.
Sri Aurobindo: Why, during the middle ages, it seems, most of the surgeons were barbers. (After a pause) I understand there are Kavirajas, physicians, who can, by examining the pulse, state the physical condition and the disease of the patient.
Disciple: No one has seen these claims demonstrated. I have heard of some remarkable Nāḍi, pulse, specialists who can even say what the patient had eaten a few days ago.(Laughter) Can we accept these claims?
Sri Aurobindo: Why not? How do you know they are not correct? Many sciences are built up by experience and intuition. They are handed down by tradition; for example, the Chinese method of treatment by finding and pricking the nerve-centres.
Disciple: It is said of Dhanvantari, the father of Ayurveda, that he came to know the medicinal properties of plants by intuition. He would, it seems, stand before a plant and question the plant and it would reveal its properties to him.
Sri Aurobindo (smiling) : He was the physician of the Gods and so nothing is unnatural for him. (Laughter)
(After a pause) Ayurveda is the first system of medicine; it originated in India. Medicine, mathematical notations and astrology all went from India to Arabia, and from there they travelled to Greece. The three humours of which Hippocrates and Galen speak are an Indian idea.
Disciple: At Calcutta and other places they are trying to start Ayurvedic schools. I think it is good. It will be a combination of Eastern and Western systems, especially of Western anatomy and surgery.
Sri Aurobindo: Why! Anatomy and surgery were known to Indians. There were many surgical instruments in India. For an ancient system like the Ayurveda I doubt if the modern method of teaching would do. Modern methods make the whole subject too mental, too intellectual, while the ancient systems were more intuitional. These subjects used to be handed down from Guru to disciple. The same is true of Yoga. One can't think of schools and colleges and studies of Yoga. That would be an American idea. The centre of Yoga teaching in America has been holding classes and giving lectures and courses.
Disciple: Perhaps Hatha Yoga can be taught that way.
Sri Aurobindo: Even that would be only the external part.
25 DECEMBER 1938
Doctor X insisted on removing the splints that were attached to Sri Aurobindo's fractured thigh but all those who were in attendance could not assent to his proposal. At last the doctor departed leaving the question to be decided by Sri Aurobindo.
Sri Aurobindo: I do not want to take a risk. I have to be careful as I am not sure that some violent movement would not take place in sleep. And there are the adverse forces to be considered. The specialist says ten weeks, Dr. X says six; so we will take a via media that will satisfy both.
Disciple: Dr. X always emphasises that you are an extraordinary patient who can be trusted to follow directions.
Sri Aurobindo: In that case I have to take extraordinary care.
( After an interval of silence during which the Mother came and departed for meditation, Sri Aurobindo himself continued)
It seems the doctors are born to differ. Medical science has developed much knowledge but in application it is either an art or a fluke.
Disciple: Perhaps it has not attained exactness in its application because of individual variation.
Sri Aurobindo: They have not found any drug that can be called specific for a particular disease, — I am thinking of allopathy. I know nothing about homeopathy. Even in theory, which they have developed remarkably, there is always a change. What they hold true today is discarded as invalid after ten years. A French doctor has proved with statistics that T. B. is not a contagious disease. He says it is hereditary. I myself have not found it contagious. Or, take diet — they are changing their ideas constantly about it.
Disciple: Besides uncertainty of the medicine and treatment, there are doctors who are incapable and even unscrupulous. Ithink that the medical profession should be under State control.
Sri Aurobindo: I don't believe in that. Ilike State control less than a Medical Council's control.
Disciple: Something like the action of the County Council in London would be desirable. There a regular medical check-up is enjoined.
Sri Aurobindo: What about the poor yogis who may not like being examined?
Disciple: The nationalisation of medical service is envisaged. Patients of a particular locality are placed under the charge of a doctor and it appears they can't change the doctor without sufficient reason.
Sri Aurobindo: If the patient has no faith in the doctor, or if he does not like him?
Disciple: That is not a sufficient reason, for the Council sees that all the doctors are well-trained.
Sri Aurobindo: Why not? It is an excellent reason. Why should there be no choice? You may as well ask a patient to be under our doctor X and not go to Y. I have no faith in government controls because I believe in a certain amount of freedom — freedom to find out things for oneself in ones own way, even freedom to commit blunders. Nature leads us through various errors and mistakes. When Nature created the human being with all his possibilities of errors and mistakes she knew very well what she was about. Freedom for experiment in human life is a great thing. Without the freedom to take risk and commit mistakes there can be no progress.
Disciple: But without sufficient growth of consciousness one may abuse the freedom.
Sri Aurobindo: One must take the risk. Growth of consciousness cannot come without freedom. You can, of course, have certain elementary laws, and develop sanitation, spread knowledge of health and hygiene among the people. The State can provide medical aid certainly, but when one goes beyond ones province then the error comes in. To say that one can't change ones doctor, it seems to me, is a little too much. In Indian spirituality they have allowed all sorts of experiments including Vama Marga, and you see how wonderfully it has developed.
Mechanisation has begun from the pressure exerted by the developments of the physical sciences in which one can be exact, precise and where everything is mechanical. It is tried and found to be all right so far as physical things are concerned because, if you make a mistake there, Nature knocks you on the nose and you are compelled to see your error. But the moment you deal with Life and Mind, you cannot apply the same rules. If you apply them then you may go on committing mistakes and never know it. You fail to see this because of a fixed idea which tries to fit in everything according to its own conception.
Everything is moving towards that in Europe. The totalitarian States do not believe in any individual variation and even other non-totalitarian States are obliged to follow them. They do it for the sake of efficiency. It is the efficiency of the State as an organisation, the machine, and not of the individual. The individual has no freedom. He does not grow. Organise by all means but there must be scope for freedom and plasticity.
Disciple: Bernard Shaw justified the Abyssinian conquest by Italy by saying that there was danger to human life while passing through the Dankal desert.
Sri Aurobindo: In that case, let him keep out of the desert. What business has he to go through the desert?
Disciple: The idea is that Italy will bring a new culture to Abyssinia, — roads and other features of modern civilisation.
Sri Aurobindo: You think the Abyssinians and Negroes have no art and no culture? Of course, if you walk into a Negro den they might kill you. But the same thing is being done in Germany! How many people in England are aesthetically developed? And about buildings and roads, looking at life in Port Said, could anyone say that the people there are more civilised than the Negroes? Have you read Phanindra Nath Bose's book on the Santhals? He shows that the Santhals are not at all inferior to other classes of Indians in ethics. So also about the Arabian races. Mr. Blunt praises them very highly as a sympathetic and honest people. Do you think that the average man of today is far better than a Greek two thousand years ago, or to an Indian of those times? Look at the condition of Germany today. You can't say that it is progressing.
I have come in contact with the Indian masses and found them better than the Europeans of the same class. They are superior to the European working-class. The latter may be more efficient but that is due to other reasons. The Governor here remarked during riots that the labourers are very docile and humble; only when they take to drink they become violent. The Irish doctor who was in Alipore jail could not imagine how the young men who were so gentle and attractive could be revolutionaries. I found even the ordinary criminal quite human and better than his counterpart in Europe.
There will always remain different states of development of humanity. It is a fallacy to say that education will do everything. Our civilisation is not an unmixed good. You have only to look at civilised races in Europe. What is the state of affairs in Nazi Germany? It is terrible. It is extremely difficult for an individual to assert himself. All are living in a state of tension. In that tension either the whole structure will break down with a crash, or all life will be crushed out of the people. In both cases the result is a disaster.
Society is after all reverting to the old system, — only in a different form. There is a revival of the old system of monarchy with an aristocracy and the mass. There is the Führer or the leader, that is to say, the king. You have thus the sovereign man, his party — the aristocracy, the chosen — and the general mass. The same is the case with Fascism and Communism. Only the Brahmin class — the intellectuals — have no place.
It is curious how a thing gets spoiled when it gets recognition. Democracy was something better when it was not called democracy. When the name is given the truth of it seems to go out.
Disciple: X used to be a great admirer of Socialism. He used to say it is heaven without a god.
Sri Aurobindo: Why didn't he go there? If he had gone there he would have been suppressed. I had foreseen that socialism would take away all freedom of the individual.
Disciple: Is there any difference between Communism and Nazism?
Sri Aurobindo: Practically none. The Nazis call themselves National Socialists while the others are mere Socialists; in Communism it is a proletarian government and there are no separate classes. The Nazis have kept the classes, only they are all bound to the State, everything is under State-control just as in Communism.
Disciple: But Communism began with a high ideal and it must be better than Fascism or Nazism.
Sri Aurobindo: In which way better? Formerly people were unconscious slaves; now under Communism they are conscious slaves. In the former regime they could resort to a strike when they were dissatisfied, now they can't. The main question is whether the people have freedom or not. But they are bound to the State, the dictator and the party. They can't even choose the dictator. And whoever differs from them is mercilessly suppressed. You know the way they are doing it.
Disciple: But with the abolition of class-distinction there is now perhaps a sense of equality among all — nobody is superior or inferior.
Sri Aurobindo: How? At first the leaders, the generals and others went to run the machines and industrial organisations in Russia. But they found it was not possible; then they had to bring in specialists and pay them highly. The condition of the working class in Russia is no better than that of the similar class in England or France. They certainly have done some good things with regard to women and children, and about medical help. But that is being done in many other countries like France and England.
Disciple: Why are people like Romain Rolland so enthusiastic about Russia?
Sri Aurobindo: Probably because they are Socialists. But they are getting disillusioned. Plenty of French workers went to Russia and came back disappointed. The same thing had happened when democracy had come. People thought there would be plenty of liberty, but they found it was a delusion.
Disciple: But formerly they were serving the Emperor and now they serve their own people.
Sri Aurobindo: Certainly not, — where did you get that idea from? The Emperor had nothing to do with the government. It was the capitalist class that ruled the country. The same is the case today whatever name one may give. The whole thing — whatever its name — is a fraud. It is impossible to change humanity by political machinery — it can't be done.
30 DECEMBER 1938
The subject of the talk was homeopathy.
Disciple: I am puzzled to think how such infinitesimal doses in dilution can act on the human system.
Sri Aurobindo: That is no puzzle to me. Sometimes the infinitesimal is more powerful than the mass; it approaches more and more the subtle state and from the physical goes into a dynamic or vital state and acts vitally.
In the evening a letter from a disciple describing vividly his feeling of being persecuted was read.
Disciple: Is it a case of possession?
Sri Aurobindo: Yes. It is the possession of the nervous system and vital system and vital mind. It is not like insanity. It is very difficult to convince these people that their ideas of persecution are false. There are two types: one imagines all sorts of things, — 80 per cent of the cases are of this type; and the other twists everything.
My brother Manmohan had this persecution mania; he was always in fear of something terrible happening to him. He used to think that the British Government was going to arrest him!
Disciple: But he was a very successful professor; I heard that people used to listen to his lectures with rapt attention.
Sri Aurobindo: He was very painstaking; most of the professors don't work hard. I saw that his books used to be interleaved and marked and full of notes.
(Looking at X) I was not so conscientious a professor.
Disciple: But people who heard you in College and those who heard you afterwards in politics differ from you. They speak very highly of your lectures.
Sri Aurobindo: I never used to look at the notes and sometimes my explanations did not agree with them at all. I was professor of English and for some time of French. What was surprising to me was that the students used to take down everything verbatim and mug it up by heart. Such a thing would never have happened in England.
Disciple: But we did that in England!
Sri Aurobindo: Did what?
Disciple: Take notes and mug them up.
Sri Aurobindo: You can take notes and utilise them in your own way.
Disciple: No, that was not the case. We used to take down everything verbatim because the professors used to bring in many theories and recent discoveries. Besides, each professor had his own fad.
Sri Aurobindo: It may be so in medicine, there is not much scope for original thinking. But in the arts it is not like that. You listen to the lectures, take notes if you like and then make what you can of them. There was always a demand for the students point of view.
The students at Baroda, besides taking my notes, used to get notes of other professors from Bombay, especially if any of them was an examiner. Once I was giving a lecture on Southey's Life of Nelson, and my lecture was not in agreement with the notes. So the students remarked that it was not at all like what was found in them. I replied that I had not read the notes; in any case they were all rubbish. I could never go into minute details. I read and left my mind to do what it could. That is why I could never become a scholar. Up to the age of fifteen I was known as a very promising scholar at St. Paul's. Thereafter I lost that reputation. The teachers used to say that I was lazy and was deteriorating.
Disciple: How was that?
Sri Aurobindo: Because I was reading novels and poetry. Only at the time of the examination I used to prepare a little. When, now and then, I used to write Greek and Latin verse my teachers used to lament that I was not utilising my remarkable gifts because of my laziness.
When I went on scholarship to King's College, Cambridge, Oscar Browning remarked that he had not seen such remarkable papers before. So, you see, in spite of all laziness I was not deteriorating.
Disciple: Was there a prejudice against Indians at that time?
Sri Aurobindo: No. There was no distinction between an Englishman and an Indian. Only the lower class people used to shout "Blackie, Blackie." But it was just the beginning. It was brought by Anglo-Indians and Englishmen retiring from the colonies. It is a result of Democracy, I suppose. But among cultured Englishmen it was unknown and they treated us as equals.
But in France one never heard of such prejudices. Once some Paris hotel-manager, pressed by ten Americans, asked some Negroes to leave the hotel. I don't know if you have read the story in the papers. As soon as it came to the Presidents notice, he sent an order that if the hotel proprietor did that his hotel license would be cancelled. They have Negro governors and officers, taxi-drivers, etc. There was a Senegalese deputy who used to designate the governors. I wonder why they have never appointed any Indian deputy in Pondicherry. The English have a certain liberality and common sense.
Disciple: Liberality?
Sri Aurobindo: By liberality Idon't mean generosity but a sort of freedom of consciousness and a certain fairness. Because of these, along with their public spirit, there is not such confusion in public life in England as in France or in America. The English can vehemently criticise one another in the press — even personally — but that does not affect their private relationship. You have seen how Brailsford has attacked Chamberlain; but their friendship, or private relations, won't be affected by that.
Disciple: That might be only for show.
Sri Aurobindo: No, it is quite genuine and there is a great freedom of speech in England.
Disciple: Vivekananda said that it is difficult to make friends with an Englishman, but once the friendship is made it lasts a life-time.
Sri Aurobindo: Quite true.
Disciple: Jean Herbert says that the Japanese are also like that. They are very polite and formal but once you can make friends they are very good friends.
Sri Aurobindo: Yes. The Japanese are very polite in their manners and conduct, they don't admit you to their private life. They have a wonderful power of self-control. They don't lose their temper or quarrel with you; but if their honour is violated they may kill you. They can be bitter enemies. And where honour is concerned, if they do not kill you, they may kill themselves at your door. For instance, if a Japanese killed himself at an Englishman's door it would be impossible for the latter to live there any more. Even in crime the Japanese have a strange sense of values. If a robber entered a house and the householder told him that he required some money, the robber would part with some of it; but if he said that he had a debt of honour to pay, then the robber would leave all the money and go away. Imagine such a housebreaker in England or America! The Japanese also have a high sense of chivalry. In the Russo-Japanese war when the Russians were defeated the Mikado almost shed tears thinking of the Czar of Russia! That was his sense of chivalry.
When a congregation of fifty thousand persons was caught in a fire due to an earthquake there was not a single cry, not a mutter. All men were standing up and chanting a Buddhist hymn. That is a heroic people with wonderful self-control.
Disciple: If they have such self-control they would be very good at Yoga.
Sri Aurobindo: Ah, self-control alone is not enough for Yoga. They are more an ethical race; their rules are extremely difficult to follow.
But these things perhaps belong to the past. It is a great pity that people who have carried such ideals into practice are losing them through contact with European civilisation. That is a great harm that European vulgarising has done to Japan. Now you find most people mercantile in their outlook and they will do anything for the sake of money.
Nakashima's mother when she returned from America to Japan — as is the custom with the Japanese — was so horrified to see the present-day Japan that she went back to America! That the Japanese are not a spiritual race can be seen from the case of H, who was a great patriot and full of schemes for the future, but at the same time did not like the modern trends of Japan. He used to say: "My psychic being has become a traitor."
Disciple: Have you read Noguchi's letter to Tagore defending Japans aggression?
Sri Aurobindo: No. But there are always two sides to a question. I don't believe in such shouts against Imperialism. Conquests of that sort were, at one time, regarded as a normal activity of political life; now you do it under some pretensions and excuses. Almost every nation does it. What about China herself? She took Kashgar in the same way. The very name Kashgar shows that the Chinese have no business to be there. Apart from the new fashions of killing there is nothing wrong in war. It is the Anglo-Saxon hypocrisy that cries out against it; the French don't.
Disciple: It is said of the French that they don't usually lose their head, but when they lose it they lose it well.
Sri Aurobindo: Yes, the Indian also was considered docile and mild like the elephant, but once he is off the line you better keep out of his way.
Now there is a new morality in the air. They talk of pacifism, anti-nationalism, anti-militarism, etc. But it is talked of by those who can't do anything. In any case, it has to stand the test of time.
Disciple: J used to be wild when England began to shout against Italy's war on Abyssinia. Of course, J does not defend Italy, but England should be the last nation to speak against it.
Sri Aurobindo: Quite so. England was the only country that defended air-bombing because the English wanted to kill the Pathans.
Disciple: Has European civilisation nothing good in it?
Sri Aurobindo: It has lowered the moral tone of humanity. Of course, it has brought hygiene, sanitation, etc. Even nineteenth-century civilisation with its defects was better than this. Europe could not stand the test of the last war.
The ancients tried to keep to their ideals and made an effort to raise them higher, while Europe lost all her ideals after the war. People have become cynical, selfish, etc. What you hear of postwar England, postwar Germany, is not all wrong. Have you not heard Arjava inveighing against postwar England? I suppose it is all due to commercialism.
10 JANUARY 1939
Disciple: My friend X has begun to give medicine to some of my patients.
Sri Aurobindo: So, you have your "homeo-allo" alliance or axis!
( Talk on homeopathy was going on when the Mother came.)
Mother: Do you know about a school of homeopathy in Switzerland which is very famous in Europe? It prepares medicines also. They have books in which symptoms are grouped together and remedies are indicated for a group of symptoms. It is a very convenient method; only, you have to have the book, or a good memory. But are you allowed to practise homeopathy without a licence?
Disciple: Oh, yes. No licence is required in India.
Disciple: But Dr. S was saying that using high potencies might harm, or even kill, the patient. It is dangerous if everybody begins to practise it, they say.
Disciple: In Bengal it is practised everywhere.
Sri Aurobindo: Is Unani medicine practised in India?
Disciple: Yes, in cities where there is a Mohamedan population, and in the Muslim states. In Delhi there is the Tibbia College founded by Hakim Ajmal Khan. It seems it is the only school of Unani medicine in the whole of Asia. Students from Turkey, Egypt and Afghanistan used to come there to learn. Ajmal Khan was the direct descendant of the Court Hakim to the Mogul Emperors. From where is their system derived?
Sri Aurobindo: It is from the Greek school. They use animal products and salts. Besides curing, which is common to all the systems, the Unani lays claim to rejuvenating the human organism. Many diseases which require an operation for their cure in allopathy are cured by Unani and Ayurvedic medicines without an operation.
There were many specific cures known in India but I am afraid they are getting lost. I remember the case of Jyotindra Nath Banerji who had a remedy for sterility from a Sannyasi and he used it with success. Many cases of barrenness for ten or fifteen years were cured within a short time. The directions for taking the medicine were to be very scrupulously observed. He knew also a remedy for hydrocele.
Mother: Do you know about Chinese medicine? Once they had a rule that you paid the doctor so long as you were well. All payment stopped when one became ill, and if the patient died they used to put a mark on the doctors door to show that his patient had died.
But the Chinese method of pricking the nerve and curing the disease is very remarkable. The idea is that there is a point of the nerve where the attack of the disease is concentrated by the attacking force and if you prick the point, or, as they say, the Devil on the head, the disease is cured. They find out this nervous point from the indications that the patient gives, or sometimes they find out by themselves also.
Disciple: I do not think that any system of medicine can succeed in curing all diseases. I believe that only yogic power can cure all diseases.
Disciple: Even that is not unconditional; otherwise, it might be very nice. There are conditions to be fulfilled for the yogic power to succeed.
Sri Aurobindo: Do you expect that the yogic power or consciousness will simply say, "Let there be no disease", and there will be no disease?
Disciple: Not that way. But cases ofmiraculous cures are known, that is, cures effected without any conditions.
Sri Aurobindo: That is another matter. Otherwise, the Yogi has only to get up every morning and say, "Let everybody in the world be all right" and there would be no disease in the world!
25 AUGUST 1939
Disciple: The Jain books speak of Trikal Jnana, practical omniscience. If one has this power one can know how a thing happened. One can know how the accident happened to you.
Sri Aurobindo: It is a question of changing the Subconscient, for it holds everything in itself. All diseases, all habits, in fact everything we call 'Nature' resides in it. It is the basis of all these things.
Disciple: But how could the accident happen?
Sri Aurobindo: It was because I was unguarded and something forced its way into the subconscient. There is a stage in yogic advance when the least negligence would not do.
Disciple: But how can the knee-joint be cured by the Higher Force?
Sri Aurobindo: The right kind of Force does not come down on the knee-joint. If it came it would be cured.
Disciple: Do you feel the dark forces?
Sri Aurobindo: Yes.
Disciple: Do they try to prevent the recovery?
Sri Aurobindo: Yes.
Disciple: There is a belief that the reactions of certain actions are unavoidable: that is to say, one has to bear the consequences in the physical, one can't avoid them. I heard that the Mother told A that the incurable defect in his leg could be cured by the descent of the Supramental Power. Is it possible?
Sri Aurobindo: Yes, by the descent of the Supramental Power into A, not into anybody else.
Disciple: But in that case the Supramental descent can change stones and metals.
Sri Aurobindo: In stones and metals there is no mind which requires to be changed. It is not so difficult to effect a change in them. So if the Supermind descends into you it will do. There is no need to solve all problems.
Disciple: But it must take place in you first. If it happens what changes will it bring about?
Sri Aurobindo: My work is to fix it in the earth-consciousness and its establishment in me would be a part of it. It would make its descent possible in others also.
Disciple: We hear that in ancient times the great Siddhas used to cure the sickness of others by mere touch. Ramakrishna even gave yogic experience by a touch.
Sri Aurobindo: There are different kinds of powers by which these things are done — they are miracles. But the power to perform miracles is not necessarily a sign of spirituality. In this Yoga we leave things to the Divine; if these powers come as a part of the Divine movement then they have a place.
Disciple: Are there not Karmas the results of which are unavoidable? Even Buddha and the Tirthankars had to undergo the results of their karmas done in their past lives. Can it be said in your case that the accident was the result of Utkata Karma?
Sri Aurobindo: I don't think so. For me it is a part of the fight against the forces of Ignorance and against the hostile forces.
Disciple: Your foot slipped on the tiger-skin. Now, suppose you had beaten a tiger in your past life with a stick, then it may give you a fractured leg this time.
Disciple: Or you might have shot it.
Sri Aurobindo: No. Then it would come and kill me this time.
The Law of Karma is not mathematical or mechanical: Certain energies are put forward and certain results tend to be produced. Karma is not the fundamental law of consciousness. The basic law is spiritual. Karma is a secondary machinery to help the consciousness to grow by experience. The laws of being are primarily spiritual. It is quite possible to eliminate the Karmic force — it is not absolute. It is the mind that formulates these laws; and the mind always tries to put them as absolute.
Disciple: Can one say that the accident has done 'good'?
Sri Aurobindo: I have advanced very much further after November last. I have found time to write some books; and now I get more time to concentrate.
Disciple: Have the disciples made progress during this period?
Sri Aurobindo: Even Dwho formerly could not believe in the silent working of the Power now says that the stopping of Pranams has made the silent work more possible. All the time was taken in writing letters.
Disciple: D always wanted you to write books.
Sri Aurobindo: Not only that, he wanted me to write more poetry and more letters to him. (Laughter)
There is a great change in him since that time.
20 MARCH 1943
A devotee who was suffering from cancer died.
Disciple: Do you think that R could have been cured? Most people believe that cancer is incurable.
Sri Aurobindo: It was possible in his case, at least; but something in him ceased to respond after the February Darshan. The last three days his body did not respond either to the Force put upon him, or to the medicine given.
Disciple: Could not the spiritual help be effective irrespective of his response?
Sri Aurobindo: In cases like this the entire collaboration of the person concerned is absolutely necessary.
Disciple: But if you know the force that is attacking?
Sri Aurobindo: To detect the force that is attacking is one thing and to drive it out is another. In these cases the mind plays a very great part. R had made up his mind that he would wait for the Darshan and die afterwards. Besides when he came here the disease was very much advanced.
Disciple: What are the conditions for success in such cases?
Sri Aurobindo: Either entire collaboration or complete passivity. These are the two conditions for a cure.
Disciple: Do you think Dr. A's homeopathic treatment could have prolonged his life?
Sri Aurobindo: He would have probably finished him earlier.
19 JULY 1943
Disciple: A has written to someone in Bengal that the vital being in man is responsible for diseases and that the body has no part in it. What do you think of it?
Sri Aurobindo: You can say Matter knows nothing about good and bad or sick and healthy. But the human body, I mean the physical consciousness, is not Matter. It is conscious, and therefore it can have its own responsibility with regard to diseases.
Disciple: It seems A's standpoint referred to repentance and expiation. He wanted to say that to punish the body for the faults of the vital being or of the mind was to punish John for Jack.
Sri Aurobindo: One may differ on that point too. To consider as if the body, the vital and the mind were so cut off from each other as not to have any mutual reaction is not true. So the physical too can react on the vital being.
Disciple: But the physical being in us is not as conscious as the vital or the mental being.
Sri Aurobindo: The physical may be said to be more unconscious than the other parts, but that would not prevent it from exerting a very powerful influence on the other parts.
Besides, the decision to fast, or to do physical Tapasya, is taken by the vital and the mental being in man. It is not the body that takes the decision.
Disciple: But in the psychological paths of Yoga physical Tapasya is not regarded as necessary.
Sri Aurobindo: The reason why physical Tapasya, or mortification of the flesh, is not considered effective or is discouraged, is that by itself it is not sufficient to bring about a change in the vital or in the mind. You may do Tapasya all right and yet the vital may remain absolutely unchanged.
Such a change can be more easily brought about by the consciousness acting directly without resorting to physical means. Consciousness has a more direct means of bringing about the required change.
There is another reason for this discouragement. Physical Tapasya, when properly done, brings about a great increase in energy, and then the result of it depends upon who takes hold of the energy. Generally it is seen that wrong forces take hold of this energy. In exceptional cases only can one go through without disaster.
The root of the whole trouble is in the subconscient, and so the difficulty arises from there.
But if the Tapasya is taken up by the consciousness — say, by some part of the consciousness like the vital, then it can effect the necessary change.
***
II — On Letters ON ART
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