The nights are beginning to be interesting! Very interesting, because I have a vision—I don’t know where it is, whether it’s in the subtle physical (probably so)—a symbolic vision, but active (it’s an action), a vision of what’s happening, but then… (Mother smiles) AS IT Is, not as people see it!
Things here are always cloaked in a number of clothes, it’s never the exact thing, but there, it is the exact thing. Just now… Last night, I had a long activity, and I wondered, “But why am I seeing all this?” A long activity (I’ll tell you what it was), and just now, Z was here and started telling me the difficulties they have with the servants…. “Ah,” I thought, “here we are, it’s my vision, what I saw last night!” And in my vision… You know that here, it’s P. who looks after the servants, but in the night, it was Amrita, and Amrita as he is now, not as he was physically (because when he left his body, Amrita came to me, and in fact, he hasn’t left me, but he is free: now he rests, now he goes about). Last night, he was very active, and he symbolized R’s activity, as if his influence was what guided R But it was… (Mother seems very amused) the symbols were so clear and so amusing, with such an amusing sense of humor! (The nights have really become very interesting….) Oh, last night, I did gymnastics! (Mother laughs) It was because of that business with the servants: in the end, at one spot a wall was needed as a protection from the servants’ invasion, and they had built a small wall (a small wall to protect a doorway); so I entered the house, and when I wanted to go out the other way, they had removed the staircase to build that small wall! So (laughing) there was a gaping hole, and I had to go back down (I was very agile) by clinging to the wall! Things of that sort, thoroughly amusing…. They had put up a kind of big partition as a protection from a crowd of servants who had swarmed into the street, a partition so they wouldn’t sweep in here; then Amrita came, opened the partition, and started talking with the people outside! I told him (laughing), “There, you’re ruining all our work!”
And then, I go to America, I go to Europe, I go… all the time. I go to some places in India. And all of that is work, work, work—at night. But so living!
The other day, a few days ago, I had a long activity in America where I met people in a meeting, spoke to them, replied to their questions, arranged things; and two or three days later, I received a letter from someone in America who is organizing a boat to come here for the centenary, in 1972—a woman. And I found her photo again: she is the one I had seen and talked to!… It’s becoming interesting.
Not many different things: the greatest part of the night is perfectly still, silent, and WITHIN the Force—within the Force—as if I were lying WITHIN the Force to let it permeate everything; and then, at a given time (generally at the end of the night), an activity like that one, just one, which lasts for one hour, two hours, with all kinds of details, and extremely precise. So it’s beginning to be interesting.
The body participates, you see; I could say that it’s the body which dreams, it’s not an inner being: it’s the subtle body that dreams. It has a very concrete character, with a very SIMPLE symbolism, simple but so clear! It’s interesting.
(silence)
Then, the contact with people… I have made it a rule not to speak to those who come, the visitors; I only speak to those I work with, because the body itself feels its consciousness go down as soon as I start speaking. If I don’t speak, its consciousness is very… (what should I say?) very even and vast (much vaster than the body), very vast, even, and very receptive without distortion; as soon as I speak… it’s not longer that. So I don’t like to speak, but I am obliged to somehow, as I speak to you or when I have work to do to organize things. This morning, I had the visit of the Commission sent by the government to see if we are good children (!) and deserve the money… which they are to give us. So that Commission asked to see me. I said, “I agree, provided we do not talk and I say nothing.” When I see people… they are transparent, you know, and generally I see what they think, I see what they want, or their impulsion or…—it’s very amusing. And I talk to them. I talk to them in the sense that I tell them something inwardly (“I” doesn’t know: it’s the consciousness that knows precisely what they should be told). Sometimes I know nothing about them; they’ve just arrived, I see them and give them a speech! I give them a speech, and I am myself surprised: “Well! Why am I telling him all this?” And later on, I learn that it’s precisely the person’s preoccupations or difficulty or…
Which means there is some progress. There is progress in the consciousness, but not yet in the equilibrium of health; that’s very difficult. It has become extremely sensitive and the least thing causes reactions…. We’ll see.
(silence)
And what about you?… Nothing?… What do you have to say?
I have a feeling that I am less conscious than in the past—in my sleep, for instance.
Earlier, you always used to tell me that you were unconscious!
In the first years, I was more conscious.
Ah?
For instance, during my sleep, I would often wake up in the middle of a meditation, or else I was conscious of being seized by a force and moving on elsewhere things like that. Now there are never any phenomena of that sort anymore…. It’s a complete void, or else chaotic activities.1
(Mother remains silent)
I felt there was all the same a sadhana taking place in my sleep….
For a time, I used to see you every night, to go to the places where you went (and I would tell you). They are places that have to do with the life of the earth, but which aren’t very near, I mean it’s a rather subtle vision of things, above the mind; a vision and an action that are above the mind. And I always used to see you there; you had… something like an office, it was an IMMENSE hall (I told you several times), and no walls; the impression was of being in halls, yet there were no walls: one could see outside. And it was always the same place, but with different halls, in the sense that now one would look after one thing and now after another. But you were always there and always busy. There were big cupboards that contained all the “reports,” and you were very interested in that. It went on for YEARS, almost every night I would see you there. But now, I am not going there anymore, so I don’t see you.
I did see you, but then it was quite different, once in a while like that, as in that vision with Amrita, and associated with a work I was doing.
I no longer go there because… you understand, there’s only the body, it’s the BODY’S activity; it’s interesting: it’s the body’s inner life. So then, I see you now and then, but it’s because of the thing I concern myself with, it’s not as it was before.
There, in that domain above the mind, you seem to be there every night: a very constant activity And it’s very interesting, it’s a place where, so to speak, a number of events to come are decided: changes, events are organized there; but they’re organized… as in a management office, you understand—the action doesn’t take place there, it’s the organization (gesture of vision). The execution isn’t visible, it’s below.
There was a time when I used to see you very, very regularly, and that was the time when you would tell me that you were completely unconscious! (Mother laughs)
I feel that the key I lack is the key of the physical mind.
Physical?
Physical, yes. If I could get a grip on this physical mind so as to make it work spontaneously on true things rather than work on stupid things, if it worked automatically, then even at night it would be…
Yes, yes!
But how to do it? I don’t know… As long as I put on it a pressure from above, it’s very good, but the second the pressure goes…
It starts all over again.
It goes on.
Well, yes! It obeys but it’s not transformed.
No, not at all. I have to put pressure on it.
That’s right.
But how to get hold of it, I don’t know.
(after a silence)
Oh, but if it’s the physical mind… Because it’s the physical mind that’s now developing2 [in Mother] out of all proportions foreseen as possible, while Sri Aurobindo himself thought it wasn’t possible; he said it’s better to get rid of it, it won’t be possible [to transform it]. But I have noticed it can be transformed, because the mind and the vital are gone, so there was a need to replace the mind in the functioning, and this physical mind has developed in quite an extraordinary way. It has become… (what should I say?) far more conscious, first of all, far more organized and methodical in its work. So if it’s your physical mind, something can be done—I’ll try. I can try to do something at night.
The mind, I can’t do anything about it anymore, I no longer have a mind; but the physical mind, I can.
It would have to be touched.
Yes, yes.
A few years ago, for instance, the first time I heard that mantra at the Playground (it was in a film3), well, that evening, it had touched me so much that in the night I woke up repeating that mantra.
Oh!
It’s something that needs to be TOUCHED. If it were touched and hooked on to the true vibration, well, it would go on.
Yes.
When I used to do that Tantric japa, at night, for instance, I often used to feel an activity of sadhana going on BECAUSE of that.
Oh!…
Because this physical mind had been so much handled and worked4 that even during sleep something would remain.
Oh, then, it had some effect.
It had some effect.
But why don’t you do it again?
But I am done with X.5
Yes, but you don’t need X.
You mean I should start doing it again for several hours?
Oh, was it written?
No. There were written yantrams, but there was also japa.
Japa? You did japa?
I did japa for… I don’t know, for hours every day.
But I told you, the body repeats the mantra (which is also japa) spontaneously, and absolutely without the intervention of the consciousness. It has got into the habit; as soon as it has the least difficulty, it repeats the mantra. So you can obtain the same result.
Of course, but how? It would have to be ingrained.
Yes.
But how?
We’ll try.
Should I start doing methodical japa as I used to, or what?
You could try, perhaps simply as an experiment, to see if it has effect. Maybe not as you used to do it, but as I did it, at the slightest activity, or the slightest difficulty, repeating the mantra or the japa. And almost uttering it, you understand.
But Mother, in fact I do it almost all the time.
Oh, do you?
I do it, but… as it is, it’s a certain part of my mind, with a bit of psychic, that has to do it.
Ah!…
It’s not something spontaneous, it’s not INGRAINED in the physical substance, you understand.
But we could try.
I do it out of a will, it’s not a spontaneity.
Yes, yes.
A will that has become quite habitual, but a will nonetheless.
Yes. But we can try.
What’s your mantra?
It’s the mantra you gave me, Mother!
Oh, that one!… It’s the mantra the body repeats spontaneously. I’ll suddenly hear it saying it, you understand, so spontaneous is it.
(silence)
Did you give me the photos of your initiation?
Yes.
Do you have them, too?
Yes, Mother.
You have the same photos…. I can’t manage to find them again! I had kept those photos with a letter from you which you had written from up there, when you were traveling.
From Benares?
Not Benares, the other place?
Brindavan… no, I don’t know.
A famous place, a place of Krishna, I think.
Then maybe it’s Brindavan.
From there, you wrote to me. You wrote me a letter, and in that letter, mon petit, you told me, “I have just had an experience.” And you had seen me.
No, it was at Benares.
At Benares. So I had kept it separately with the photos. I don’t remember where it is. I looked for it, I looked a lot. But it remained downstairs, and downstairs I don’t know what they did with it…. In front of the window I had an armchair in which I used to sit; beside the armchair, there was a sort of small partition screen; in the lower part of the partition, I had put a sort of upright drawer (it was a kind of bag, but fastened), and in it, I had kept letters and those photos (I had kept other things too). And everything has disappeared. I don’t even know if that contraption still exists….
It still exists, says Sujata.
(To Sujata:) Will you go and see? If it still exists, will you bring it? That would be amusing. (Sujata goes out)
(silence)
I’ll try.
That place where I used to see you was an experience of the higher mind, just above the mind, and since the mind left I have stopped having that experience. But this, here [the physical level] is fully active, fully. I’ll try.
(Sujata comes back with cardboard boxes full of old things which Mother starts examining)
Oh, and this… this I must have had for… at least seventy years! (laughter) It’s a copper thing that served as a letter opener; it lost its handle, but I kept it and used it…. But there’s a mirror somewhere, I don’t know where (a mirror with a golden frame, very pretty, a folding pocket mirror); it belonged to my grandmother, who gave it to me; and she had got it when she was… twelve years old. She was given it when she was twelve; she gave it to me and I kept it, and I still have it, which means that it must be much more than a hundred years old! It’s downstairs, in the cupboard…. But this is a letter opener. It’s, oh, very, very old: I had it in France before coming here, I brought it with me when I came here; I took it to Japan and used it there [to open Sri Aurobindo’s letters], and I brought it back here. So it must be… I had it at the beginning of the century—it’s much older than you! Do you want it? To open letters…
(Mother gives the letter opener to Satprem and goes on looking through the boxes)
Oh, it’s amusing!
This is a pencil sharpener! (To Sujata:) Do you use pencils?
Not much, Mother, no.
There are erasers, but they must be so old!…
Is there nothing you’d like to have?… Some old trifle there?… If you find something you would like—but you would have to use it, not to keep it in a corner.
(Sujata) No, Mother, it’s fine where it is, with your things.
So the next time, we’ll see the papers, I absolutely want to find those photos of you, and that letter.
(To Sujata:) Is there nothing here you’d like? No?
I won’t dare to use it, I’ll be tempted to keep it.
This I used all the time. It’s what I used—take anything!
(Sujata takes a pencil)
Ah, these are good pencils!… Do you want the pencil sharpener? Take it (Mother laughs).
Next time, we’ll see the papers, it’ll be fun!
(silence)
I remember having seen you not very long ago (I’ll have to see that), and it must have been in the subtle physical. So if that’s where you want to become conscious, it’s easier for me.
It’s very interesting, you know! Very interesting… Life stripped of its false appearance!
There are still forms, but not at all the same thing. You know, people are so accustomed to… travestying everything—all that is gone; there, it’s gone.
Tell me, what time do you go to bed?
About 10:30.
Ten thirty… So the first time I wake up (“wake up” is a manner of speaking) is about midnight (a little before or a little after), and you’re asleep at that time.
Yes, Mother.
So at that time, when I go back to sleep, I’ll call you. But don’t bother about it. You’ll just tell me if something happens. I’ll try.
Oh, I see lots and lots of people, I do lots and lots of things. And then I can check:6 afterwards, without trying, without questioning, I can check; the next day I am told this or that… So I’ll try. I wasn’t trying because I thought you were still going in the mind at night, in that higher region above (it’s just above the mind), and I no longer go there: I go… (gesture all the way up). But I constantly work there, in this subtle physical. And it’s becoming increasingly conscious and clear. So I’ll try.
Sri Aurobindo is there—he can be seen all the time; he is all the time doing one thing or another, he is VERY active, very active. You would meet him, that would be fine. You never see him at night?
Never, no.
(Mother gestures to put Satprem into contact)
To explain Satprem's repeated complaints better, let us add that for the first five years of his yoga, he used to have an extremely conscious sleep, almost from beginning to end, on various planes and with the perception of the transition from one plane to another or from one body to another and the memory of his activities on every plane. Then everything abruptly disappeared. It took Satprem almost ten years to understand that this "disappearance" was deliberate and meant to compel him to do the sadhana in the physical, otherwise he would have indefinitely continued with the "experiences" of the inner planes. ↩
It would seem that these last few years Mother often spoke of the "physical mind" when she meant "body-mind," as though the terminology were not quite fixed (which is hardly surprising when one is "in it"). Thus she will soon say twice, "The BODY is repeating the mantra..." ↩
A film on Prahlad played at the Ashram's Playground, on 27 April 1956. ↩
By six or seven hours of japa (repetition of a mantra) every day. ↩
Satprem's former Tantric guru. ↩
Mother means she can afterwards check the correctness of what she saw. ↩
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